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#31
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Gear Warning
Canada, not BGA....
If you are almost ready to land, nicely set up with the proper descent rate, and hear a gear up warning, what do you do? You proceed to lower the gear, your left hand is currently on the open spoilers, your right on the stick... usually..... so (also usually) your gear lever is on the right side, you need your right hand, so you switch hands, left hand on stick, right hand on gear, then just slightly before your gear comes down, you flop onto the ground hard enough to break your tail since your spoilers are now full out late on final .... left hand moved over to the stick, remember? By doing nothing you flare and land on the belly.... likely less expensive to repair. Just a theory. Until you do it yourself. Ouch. |
#32
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Gear Warning
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#33
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Gear Warning
wrote in message oups.com... Canada, not BGA.... If you are almost ready to land, nicely set up with the proper descent rate, and hear a gear up warning, what do you do? You proceed to lower the gear, your left hand is currently on the open spoilers, your right on the stick... usually..... so (also usually) your gear lever is on the right side, you need your right hand, so you switch hands, left hand on stick, right hand on gear, then just slightly before your gear comes down, you flop onto the ground hard enough to break your tail since your spoilers are now full out late on final .... left hand moved over to the stick, remember? By doing nothing you flare and land on the belly.... likely less expensive to repair. Just a theory. Until you do it yourself. Ouch. I don't quite buy all of this. Airplane pilots land with their left hand on the yoke and right hand on the throttle. When they shift to gliders, they land with their right hand on the stick and left on the spoiler. In other words, a well trailed pilot can land with either hand on the flight controls. If you can't fly with either hand, you are limited. If you can, then shifting hands to extend the gear shouldn't be a problem. A possible thought here is that a throttle will stay where it is when you let go - that's what friction locks are for. A spoiler will either suck open or slam shut forcing the pilot to keep a hand on the control. Seems like we should ask the designers to take a look at this. Bill Daniels |
#34
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Gear Warning
You close the brakes before switching hands. No glider has a really
stable spoiler when cracked open and you can use the extra height to extend your pattern while you put the gear down. A 40:1 ship can fly over six miles from an 800-foot pattern altitude and has something like 5 minutes flying time available. From 500 feet make that 3+ minutes, plenty of time to lower the gear. If you first crack the brakes just before touching down (say at 50 feet) then you are screwed and deserve to break your glider. As I said earlier, you'll need a few seconds to lower the gear so you'd better have enough height. I was trained to do all my pre-landing checks at pattern altitude, cracking the brakes and visually checking both are open and to leave my left hand on the spoiler until touchdown, which is the procedure I still follow. Mike |
#35
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Gear Warning
At 21:54 16 November 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
If it was...your wife's voice on the recording do you think you would still filter it out? Wow, nobody bit on this one? 9B |
#36
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Gear Warning
At 01:42 17 November 2005, Mike The Strike wrote:
Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff? In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in an ASW 20. With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about 600 feet - say 200 meters. BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen! Mike It's only a recommendation. |
#37
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Gear Warning
Ever seen a pilot with a fixation flying off the end of the runway with
his gear going up and down instead of his spoilers? Surprising how even competent people can get caught out and flustered by the unexpected. This is a cost versus safety argument and you takes your pick but BGA recommendations are not cost-orientated. Mike the Strike wrote: Pilots who can't respond to a gear warning or radio call probably shouldn't be flying at all! This isn't a big multi-tasking job. What would such a person do if the canopy popped open, the brake handle came off in his hands or the spoilers opened on takeoff? In a sailplane with a left-handed gear handle, all it takes is- brakes closed, gear down, brakes open again. I timed it at 3 to 4 seconds in an ASW 20. With a right-handed gear handle, you have to close brakes, switch hands, put gear down, switch back, brakes open, in 4 to 6 seconds. On downwind, you have plenty of time to do this and even on final if it isn't too short. At 50 knots, 6 seconds represents no moe than about 600 feet - say 200 meters. BGA sounds a bit like a mother hen! Mike |
#38
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Gear Warning
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#39
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Gear Warning
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#40
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Gear Warning
Hi Gary,
I'm with Gary. The ideas is to do your checklist (including an airbrake check) as you enter the pattern. If your gear is down at that point you will hear a voice telling you very clearly and repeatedly "landing gear is up, lower landing gear" and you will fix the problem on downwind. I think main thing this discussion has done is show that many people don't do thorough downwind checklists. Certainly, no gadget is going to help some pilots and it is true that last minute distractions are to be avoided - so test your airbrakes on downwind after "lowering" your landing gear and the problem will go away. If you have changed your gear from down to up you will hear a warning to lower your gear. Good Soaring, Paul Remde "Gary Emerson" wrote in message om... Mark Dickson wrote: At 22:36 16 November 2005, Gary Emerson wrote: So does the BGA recommend to use a pre-landing checklist where the spoilers are checked? If the spoilers are checked early in the pattern then the logic regarding gear warning systems is not very logical. Yes, pre-landing checks are carried out; they include checking the gear is down. If you do the checks your gear shouldn't be up on approach. If you don't do the checks you wouldn't have checked either gear or airbrakes and you'll be distracted on approach by the buzzer. You don't need a buzzer; just carry out your checks. For most, the gear warning buzzer will only be heard when pulling spoilers at altitude to intentionally descend. However, it's a nice feature to have on that day when you left the gear down the whole flight. You won't find this mistake on short final, but most likely very early on in the pattern where it's a quick fix and not likely to add extra risk in the landing phase. |
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