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JS3 chatter



 
 
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  #31  
Old December 17th 16, 12:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default JS3 chatter

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:02:19 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The product placement is a bit perplexing to me. The thought the JS-1B was a 15/18 glider. They stopped production of the B in favor of the JS1c. Now the Js1c and the Js3 will be competing for many of the same customers who want an 18 meter bird. If the reports are to be believed a wing area of 106 sq. ft. does not leave much area to support the weight of a sustainer system. 2/3 of the ASG-29's built have been sustainers and are flying with a min wing loading of 8.6-8.8 pounds.

The self launch Js1c is a great idea and will likely take away much demand from the ASH-31. Just wondering why make a 15/18 to compete with your already successful 18 meter bird. Why not build a 2 seat 20 meter glider, with an option for clubs to buy it at 18 meters with fixed gear. Just musings from a rainy Southern California.



I think the product placement is similar to Schleicher's. JS3 and ASG29 for 15/18. JS2 (original name and probable final name?) and ASH31 for 18/21. The JS2 will be bought by those who want to self-launch or want to fly in Open Class, and everyone else will buy the JS3.

One interesting tidbit from Uys's talk at the last SSA Convention was his comment that they were planning to do a self-launch jet for the American market. Presumably that would be an option for the JS3, if they still intend to follow that path.


  #32  
Old December 17th 16, 01:05 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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Default JS3 chatter

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 6:30:13 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 3:02:19 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The product placement is a bit perplexing to me. The thought the JS-1B was a 15/18 glider. They stopped production of the B in favor of the JS1c.. Now the Js1c and the Js3 will be competing for many of the same customers who want an 18 meter bird. If the reports are to be believed a wing area of 106 sq. ft. does not leave much area to support the weight of a sustainer system. 2/3 of the ASG-29's built have been sustainers and are flying with a min wing loading of 8.6-8.8 pounds.

The self launch Js1c is a great idea and will likely take away much demand from the ASH-31. Just wondering why make a 15/18 to compete with your already successful 18 meter bird. Why not build a 2 seat 20 meter glider, with an option for clubs to buy it at 18 meters with fixed gear. Just musings from a rainy Southern California.



I think the product placement is similar to Schleicher's. JS3 and ASG29 for 15/18. JS2 (original name and probable final name?) and ASH31 for 18/21. The JS2 will be bought by those who want to self-launch or want to fly in Open Class, and everyone else will buy the JS3.

One interesting tidbit from Uys's talk at the last SSA Convention was his comment that they were planning to do a self-launch jet for the American market. Presumably that would be an option for the JS3, if they still intend to follow that path.


Self launching jet would not sell well in the USA due to noise issues.
  #33  
Old December 17th 16, 01:58 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 4:05:10 PM UTC-8, Andrzej Kobus wrote:


Self launching jet would not sell well in the USA due to noise issues.



Maybe. Many USA glider locations already have corporate jets flying in and out, and they are noisier than a jet glider. Places in the west like Hollister, Ely, Tonopah, Bishop, Inyokern, Santa Ynez, Minden and so on. I am not familiar with the rest of the country, but perhaps some gliding locations there are based at airports that take jets?





  #34  
Old December 17th 16, 03:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Renny[_2_]
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On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 5:58:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 4:05:10 PM UTC-8, Andrzej Kobus wrote:


Self launching jet would not sell well in the USA due to noise issues.



Maybe. Many USA glider locations already have corporate jets flying in and out, and they are noisier than a jet glider. Places in the west like Hollister, Ely, Tonopah, Bishop, Inyokern, Santa Ynez, Minden and so on. I am not familiar with the rest of the country, but perhaps some gliding locations there are based at airports that take jets?


The Moriarty Municipal airport in New Mexico is also just fine for jets. We have corporate jets that visit on occasion and we have two jet gliders based at the airport. We also have jet gliders that visit during the soaring season, so if you've got a jet, a (quiet) FES, a 2-cycle, a rotary, a rocket assist or whatever... come visit....After all, we are used to loud noises.....Trinity Site is really not that far away....Thx - Renny
  #35  
Old December 17th 16, 03:41 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 6:02:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
The product placement is a bit perplexing to me. The thought the JS-1B was a 15/18 glider.


Nope. Production JS1 was 18M from the beginning.
  #37  
Old December 17th 16, 08:01 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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As far as IYK is concerned I doubt there will be many noise complaints with a Jet glider. While the jet may be noisy it will be nothing like the F-18's in full afterburner that we see all the time out of China Lake.

  #38  
Old December 17th 16, 01:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
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On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 9:18:01 PM UTC-5, Renny wrote:
On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 5:58:30 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 4:05:10 PM UTC-8, Andrzej Kobus wrote:


Self launching jet would not sell well in the USA due to noise issues..



Maybe. Many USA glider locations already have corporate jets flying in and out, and they are noisier than a jet glider. Places in the west like Hollister, Ely, Tonopah, Bishop, Inyokern, Santa Ynez, Minden and so on. I am not familiar with the rest of the country, but perhaps some gliding locations there are based at airports that take jets?


The Moriarty Municipal airport in New Mexico is also just fine for jets. We have corporate jets that visit on occasion and we have two jet gliders based at the airport. We also have jet gliders that visit during the soaring season, so if you've got a jet, a (quiet) FES, a 2-cycle, a rotary, a rocket assist or whatever... come visit....After all, we are used to loud noises....Trinity Site is really not that far away....Thx - Renny


This might be so in the west but not in heavily populated areas in the east.. If you have a self launcher you want to fly it from airport as close to you as possible. It is nice to roll the glider out of the hangar and go flying after a short drive. This means local airports in populated areas. The rate of climb of a jet glider is going to be such that you will be flying low at the end of the runway over people's houses. I witnessed a jet glider and I can tell you it is way more noisy than 737, plus 737 will climb rapidly getting away from the houses below quickly. The glider jet will be crawling up. Many clubs have noise complains because they fly their tow planes low after take off.
  #39  
Old December 17th 16, 02:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 6:02:19 PM UTC-5, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Why not build a 2 seat 20 meter glider, with an option for clubs to buy it at 18 meters with fixed gear. Just musings from a rainy Southern California.


I would be highly surprised if we don't see a JS-4 20m 2-seater by the end of the decade. The fixed gear market and compromises required is pretty much locked up by the DG-1001 Club. A 20/~23m glider could be very interesting.
  #40  
Old December 17th 16, 03:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jonathan St. Cloud
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Well here is a noise story. For ten years I lived at an airport, attached 800 sq.ft., condo to a 5,000 sqft hangar. This is an airport with airport people. My neighbor would always raise holly hell, when I did a compressor wash or any maintenance runs outside the hangar. Neighbor would come over and tell me to take it out to taxiway (not practical). It was a Turbine helicopter (the quietest one made). Haters are going to hate. Show up with a jet self launch and soon you will find out if your neighbors will accept, my guess is they will not. Turbofan are much quieter. This is why (among other reasons) early Lear Jets are not permitted at many airports (jet engine = noise)turbofan, much less noise.
 




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