FAI, soaring and Olympic Games

For Example John Smith wrote:

Are the differences between current model 15 meter ships really so great
that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this is
the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing the
PW5 WCG.

Maybe not - remember the concept started 20 years ago, when things
seemed different. I sort of recall gliders coming out then with
noticeable improvements, and I think there was a feeling among many that
we were on a treadmill of increasingly expensive gliders (but not better
contests) if we didn't do something. Judging the start of the WC by what
you see today will lead to a bad analysis.

When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
handicapping?

As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that we
already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the Standard and
15 meter.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

So why do we have to have a one design contest for the Olympics?

Why not just make it a handicapped contest using the current fleet?

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...

So why do we have to have a one design contest for the Olympics?

That's exactly my point and it sounds like you and Eric at least agree

Why not just make it a handicapped contest using the current fleet?

Here we have a minor disagreement. Eric and I are saying that no
handicapping is required. We (the sport of soaring) just define 15m as a
monoclass and Standard as a monoclass.

There, now we're ready. Olympics 2008 will include 2 sailplane racing
classes - Standard and 15 Meter.
Oops, forgot rules. Same as for the World's I suppose?

PW5 wouldn't be the first product to miss its mark due to faulty assumptions
based on current trends.
Anybody want to buy any 4 year old .com business plans?

Brent

"Eric Greenwell" wrote in message
...
For Example John Smith wrote:

Are the differences between current model 15 meter ships really so great
that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this
is
the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing
the
PW5 WCG.

Maybe not - remember the concept started 20 years ago, when things
seemed different. I sort of recall gliders coming out then with
noticeable improvements, and I think there was a feeling among many that
we were on a treadmill of increasingly expensive gliders (but not better
contests) if we didn't do something. Judging the start of the WC by what
you see today will lead to a bad analysis.

When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
handicapping?

As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that we
already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the Standard and
15 meter.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

The Olympics is an inappropriate venue for what we do. If Soaring were
to be included, it should only come after car racing, horse racing,
speedboat racing, soapbox derbying, street luge, bmx, skateboarding,
rock climbing, hang gliding, paragliding, skydiving, airplane
aerobatics, and a dozen or so other like sports more popular than
sailplaning. The Olympics already serves enough arcane sports. At
least those carry with them a sense of antiquity. New sports really
should be added based on participation as well as suitability to the
Olympic ideal. We don't much rate on either count.

To put it another way, if you toss an iron frisbee or hurl yourself
into sand boxes, you really need something like an Olympic gold medal
to justify the effort. Soaring has its own unique rewards that need no
extra adornments.

But then we're back to having to have the latest (most expensive) design to
be competitive. I always thought that one of the reasons to have an Olympic
contest was to test the pilots, not the plane or the pocket book. Having a
handicapped contest would open it up to more than just those who could
afford the latest designs.


"For Example John Smith" wrote in message
...

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...

So why do we have to have a one design contest for the Olympics?

That's exactly my point and it sounds like you and Eric at least agree

Why not just make it a handicapped contest using the current fleet?

Here we have a minor disagreement. Eric and I are saying that no
handicapping is required. We (the sport of soaring) just define 15m as a
monoclass and Standard as a monoclass.

There, now we're ready. Olympics 2008 will include 2 sailplane racing
classes - Standard and 15 Meter.
Oops, forgot rules. Same as for the World's I suppose?

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:07:47 -0700, "Gary Boggs"
wrote:

But then we're back to having to have the latest (most expensive) design to
be competitive. I always thought that one of the reasons to have an Olympic
contest was to test the pilots, not the plane or the pocket book. Having a
handicapped contest would open it up to more than just those who could
afford the latest designs.

Showjumping also uses pretty expensive designs - these horses are
easily twice as expensive as the most expensive glider, and here also
the "pilot" is only doing half of the job. Yet the sport seems to
work...


Bye
Andreas

Part of the appeal of showjumping is that it IS elitist. I think this is
one of the biggest obstacles to growth in our sport. Many people think that
you have to be rich to fly or compete in sailplanes and it keeps them away
from our sport. When they find out that they can join a club and soar
relatively reasonably, they are very surprised. One of the original goals
of the World Class was that the sailplane be "reasonably" priced and I agree
with that. I see having Soaring as an Olympic sport being an avenue for
getting more exposure and more people thinking about becoming involved in
Soaring. I think our sport suffers from underexposure. I think it would
benefit us all if a few thousand more sailplanes were built and sold world
wide every year.

Gary Boggs

"Andreas Maurer" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:07:47 -0700, "Gary Boggs"
wrote:

But then we're back to having to have the latest (most expensive) design
to
be competitive. I always thought that one of the reasons to have an
Olympic
contest was to test the pilots, not the plane or the pocket book. Having
a
handicapped contest would open it up to more than just those who could
afford the latest designs.

Showjumping also uses pretty expensive designs - these horses are
easily twice as expensive as the most expensive glider, and here also
the "pilot" is only doing half of the job. Yet the sport seems to
work...


Bye
Andreas

Eric Greenwell wrote:
As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that
we already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the
Standard and 15 meter

Listening to the comments of the competitors in last year's World
Gliding Championships at Leszno, I think many of them would disagree.
For example, many Discus 2 and Ventus 2 drivers would try to fly the
"a" type with the smaller fuselage, even if they needed a shoehorn to
get into it. With the same wing, the difference should be marginal
compared to the "b" type, but...


--
stephanevdv
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -

Maybe I'm failing in making the argument, but what I'm trying to say is that
a) the differences in performance between modern ships are tiny (no
handicapping required)
b) the annual incremental advance is small
c) the population of modern ships is large (enough)
Therefore, there's no need to design & build a WC ship--we already have two
designs that qualify--15M and Standard.

Brent
"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...
But then we're back to having to have the latest (most expensive) design
to
be competitive. I always thought that one of the reasons to have an
Olympic
contest was to test the pilots, not the plane or the pocket book. Having
a
handicapped contest would open it up to more than just those who could
afford the latest designs.


"For Example John Smith" wrote in message
...

"Gary Boggs" wrote in message
...

So why do we have to have a one design contest for the Olympics?

That's exactly my point and it sounds like you and Eric at least agree

Why not just make it a handicapped contest using the current fleet?

Here we have a minor disagreement. Eric and I are saying that no
handicapping is required. We (the sport of soaring) just define 15m as
a
monoclass and Standard as a monoclass.

There, now we're ready. Olympics 2008 will include 2 sailplane racing
classes - Standard and 15 Meter.
Oops, forgot rules. Same as for the World's I suppose?