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Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested



 
 
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  #11  
Old September 10th 20, 02:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 7:45:13 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 7:37:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I wonder how much of a current draw the bluetooth feature is.


The Bluetooth feature in the battery is BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy) and works by sending out small packets of data every few seconds. The infrequency of these transmission results in a very low overall current drain, probably on the order of 10 micro amps.

The phone app "listens" for these pings and can make a connection to the battery. While that connection is held, the current consumption typically goes up to the 10 milliamp range. These connections happen when the user uses the app to check the battery status. Eventually the connection is broken and the current consumption reverts to the 10 micro amps.

When the app is active on the phone, it has to constantly scan (listen) for transmitted packets so the Bluetooth is on and consuming energy from the phone battery. So yes, the phone battery is affected when the app is running. After the app goes into the background the phone operating system typically suspends the BLE scanning so the current consumption due to the scanning goes away.

Danny Brotto


When I use the GliderLink app on a phone, communicating with the goTenna device via BLE, several hours of use only drain a minority of the phone's battery capacity, and most of that is not for the Bluetooth. (I try and turn off the phone screen when I'm not looking at it, I wish the app would have the option to let the screen time out and go blank on its own.)
  #12  
Old September 10th 20, 02:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:48:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!


Some months ago I bought several "PowerSync" (related to "PowerSonic"?) LFP batteries, the non-smart version (no Bluetooth), for about $32 each, from a US seller on ebay. Rated 7.5 AH, and the same standard "brick" size as the common 7AH SLA batteries. At that price, they are cheaper than SLAs (since they will last at least twice as many years). I cut one open, so I can tell you that (1) the ones sold at that price were 2 years old when sold (date stamped late 2017), not great but no big deal, (2) the cells are the small 18650 size, like the ones used in laptop batteries (but LFP chemistry in this case), and (3) yes it includes a full BMS including cell balancing. I've used them in an electric bicycle and in an electric mower, so I can report they work OK in high-drain use (but the BMS shuts off at about 20 amps). In the glider I prefer the larger 12AH battery, but one of these smaller 7.5AH ones is my standard backup plan.

Note that a "7AH" SLA battery that is 2-3 years old will only give you about 3 AH or so if you don't want to damage it by fully discharging it, and the voltage will be pretty low by then. Tested one of these 7.5 AH LFPs by discharging 6 AH out of it, voltage was still well over 13V. The spec sheet claims they are "designed to work with AGM chargers", so you don't even need a new charger if you switch to them from SLAs, although something like the Imax B6 is better.
  #13  
Old September 10th 20, 04:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Wednesday, September 9, 2020 at 9:48:52 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!


Not sure why anyone would pay $150 for a K2 Battery.

Richard
  #14  
Old September 10th 20, 04:53 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 6:55:22 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:48:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!

Some months ago I bought several "PowerSync" (related to "PowerSonic"?) LFP batteries, the non-smart version (no Bluetooth), for about $32 each, from a US seller on ebay. Rated 7.5 AH, and the same standard "brick" size as the common 7AH SLA batteries. At that price, they are cheaper than SLAs (since they will last at least twice as many years). I cut one open, so I can tell you that (1) the ones sold at that price were 2 years old when sold (date stamped late 2017), not great but no big deal, (2) the cells are the small 18650 size, like the ones used in laptop batteries (but LFP chemistry in this case), and (3) yes it includes a full BMS including cell balancing. I've used them in an electric bicycle and in an electric mower, so I can report they work OK in high-drain use (but the BMS shuts off at about 20 amps). In the glider I prefer the larger 12AH battery, but one of these smaller 7.5AH ones is my standard backup plan.

Note that a "7AH" SLA battery that is 2-3 years old will only give you about 3 AH or so if you don't want to damage it by fully discharging it, and the voltage will be pretty low by then. Tested one of these 7.5 AH LFPs by discharging 6 AH out of it, voltage was still well over 13V. The spec sheet claims they are "designed to work with AGM chargers", so you don't even need a new charger if you switch to them from SLAs, although something like the Imax B6 is better.


Powersonic is unrelated to "Powersync" whoever that is. Powersonic is a Japanese company that has been making batteries for decades.

A higher quality charger is the Victron Smart Blue 12V/5A. Will charge any chemistry and is highly configurable through the Victron Connect app. More expensive though.

  #15  
Old September 10th 20, 05:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

Hook up one of THESE
https://www.wish.com/product/5e1eb742b6c86d0bc080c119?hide_login_modal=true&fro m_ad=goog_shopping&_display_country_code=US&_force _currency_code=USD&pid=googleadwords_int&c=%7Bcamp aignId%7D&ad_cid=5e1eb742b6c86d0bc080c119&ad_cc=US &ad_lang=EN&ad_curr=USD&ad_price=9.00&campaign_id= 7203534630&guest=true&gclid=CjwKCAjwnef6BRAgEiwAgv 8mQZC-b0Lg-t09eDW0sx1O1DnE4m2w3fiw-ptr5D44NUoo20ds7aOxwxoCiroQAvD_BwE&share=web
in series with your charger.Â* I use a Wattsup meter which cost about 5
times as much but that was all that was available at the time I bought it.

On 9/10/2020 5:08 AM, wrote:
, I use a charger that tells me how much charge (amp-hours) go into the battery, and it should correspond to how long I used it in the glider.

What charger do you use??

Thanks

Kevin
92


--
Dan, 5J

  #16  
Old September 10th 20, 09:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On 9/10/20 7:55 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:48:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!


Some months ago I bought several "PowerSync" (related to "PowerSonic"?) LFP batteries, the non-smart version (no Bluetooth), for about $32 each, from a US seller on ebay. Rated 7.5 AH, and the same standard "brick" size as the common 7AH SLA batteries. At that price, they are cheaper than SLAs (since they will last at least twice as many years). I cut one open, so I can tell you that (1) the ones sold at that price were 2 years old when sold (date stamped late 2017), not great but no big deal, (2) the cells are the small 18650 size, like the ones used in laptop batteries (but LFP chemistry in this case), and (3) yes it includes a full BMS including cell balancing. I've used them in an electric bicycle and in an electric mower, so I can report they work OK in high-drain use (but the BMS shuts off at about 20 amps). In the glider I prefer the larger 12AH battery, but one of these smaller 7.5AH ones is my standard backup plan.

Note that a "7AH" SLA battery that is 2-3 years old will only give you about 3 AH or so if you don't want to damage it by fully discharging it, and the voltage will be pretty low by then. Tested one of these 7.5 AH LFPs by discharging 6 AH out of it, voltage was still well over 13V. The spec sheet claims they are "designed to work with AGM chargers", so you don't even need a new charger if you switch to them from SLAs, although something like the Imax B6 is better.


Three things wrong with the claim that these are LFP batteries. You
said voltage was well over 13 volts after almost a full discharge, but
real LFP's are 12.8 nominal, with four cells. 12.5 volts near the end
of a discharge cycle would be a lot more believable.

The fact that the cells are 18650 form factor should be a tipoff in itself.

Most importantly, LFP doesn't have the energy density needed to pack
that much power into four small cells.

So what you have is some Li-ion battery mis-branded as being LFP.

-Dave
  #17  
Old September 10th 20, 09:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 465
Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:04:57 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 9/10/20 7:55 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:48:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!


Some months ago I bought several "PowerSync" (related to "PowerSonic"?) LFP batteries, the non-smart version (no Bluetooth), for about $32 each, from a US seller on ebay. Rated 7.5 AH, and the same standard "brick" size as the common 7AH SLA batteries. At that price, they are cheaper than SLAs (since they will last at least twice as many years). I cut one open, so I can tell you that (1) the ones sold at that price were 2 years old when sold (date stamped late 2017), not great but no big deal, (2) the cells are the small 18650 size, like the ones used in laptop batteries (but LFP chemistry in this case), and (3) yes it includes a full BMS including cell balancing. I've used them in an electric bicycle and in an electric mower, so I can report they work OK in high-drain use (but the BMS shuts off at about 20 amps). In the glider I prefer the larger 12AH battery, but one of these smaller 7.5AH ones is my standard backup plan.

Note that a "7AH" SLA battery that is 2-3 years old will only give you about 3 AH or so if you don't want to damage it by fully discharging it, and the voltage will be pretty low by then. Tested one of these 7.5 AH LFPs by discharging 6 AH out of it, voltage was still well over 13V. The spec sheet claims they are "designed to work with AGM chargers", so you don't even need a new charger if you switch to them from SLAs, although something like the Imax B6 is better.


Three things wrong with the claim that these are LFP batteries. You
said voltage was well over 13 volts after almost a full discharge, but
real LFP's are 12.8 nominal, with four cells. 12.5 volts near the end
of a discharge cycle would be a lot more believable.

The fact that the cells are 18650 form factor should be a tipoff in itself.

Most importantly, LFP doesn't have the energy density needed to pack
that much power into four small cells.

So what you have is some Li-ion battery mis-branded as being LFP.

-Dave


Not at all. The thing is packed with 20 of these cells (4S 5P configuration), 1500 mAH per 18650 cell is reasonable. LFP is famous for holding the voltage above 13V (for a 4-cell battery) until it's almost empty. I didn't discharge it all the way, only 6AH out of the nameplate 7.5AH. (I didn't care enough about the exact capacity to risk stressing the battery with a full discahrge.) If these cells were really Li-ion then 4S would be around 14.4V nominal and much higher than that when charging. Instead it runs around 13.4-13.6V for most of the charging, as it should for LFP.

I have photos of the innards of this thing if anybody's interested.

And no I'm not affiliated with the seller... In fact I put off buying them for a long time since I didn't like the seller's flippant responses to my technical questions, but eventually I found some info elsewhere online, took the risk, and am happy with what I got.
  #18  
Old September 10th 20, 11:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

Again, these have nothing to do with the batteries in the subject line, which are LFP, well documented, from a long time reputable supplier. If you want to have a discussion of some No-Name brand ebay special, I suggest you start a separate thread on them.

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 1:34:40 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:04:57 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 9/10/20 7:55 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:48:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!

Some months ago I bought several "PowerSync" (related to "PowerSonic"?) LFP batteries, the non-smart version (no Bluetooth), for about $32 each, from a US seller on ebay. Rated 7.5 AH, and the same standard "brick" size as the common 7AH SLA batteries. At that price, they are cheaper than SLAs (since they will last at least twice as many years). I cut one open, so I can tell you that (1) the ones sold at that price were 2 years old when sold (date stamped late 2017), not great but no big deal, (2) the cells are the small 18650 size, like the ones used in laptop batteries (but LFP chemistry in this case), and (3) yes it includes a full BMS including cell balancing. I've used them in an electric bicycle and in an electric mower, so I can report they work OK in high-drain use (but the BMS shuts off at about 20 amps). In the glider I prefer the larger 12AH battery, but one of these smaller 7.5AH ones is my standard backup plan.

Note that a "7AH" SLA battery that is 2-3 years old will only give you about 3 AH or so if you don't want to damage it by fully discharging it, and the voltage will be pretty low by then. Tested one of these 7.5 AH LFPs by discharging 6 AH out of it, voltage was still well over 13V. The spec sheet claims they are "designed to work with AGM chargers", so you don't even need a new charger if you switch to them from SLAs, although something like the Imax B6 is better.


Three things wrong with the claim that these are LFP batteries. You
said voltage was well over 13 volts after almost a full discharge, but
real LFP's are 12.8 nominal, with four cells. 12.5 volts near the end
of a discharge cycle would be a lot more believable.

The fact that the cells are 18650 form factor should be a tipoff in itself.

Most importantly, LFP doesn't have the energy density needed to pack
that much power into four small cells.

So what you have is some Li-ion battery mis-branded as being LFP.

-Dave

Not at all. The thing is packed with 20 of these cells (4S 5P configuration), 1500 mAH per 18650 cell is reasonable. LFP is famous for holding the voltage above 13V (for a 4-cell battery) until it's almost empty. I didn't discharge it all the way, only 6AH out of the nameplate 7.5AH. (I didn't care enough about the exact capacity to risk stressing the battery with a full discahrge.) If these cells were really Li-ion then 4S would be around 14.4V nominal and much higher than that when charging. Instead it runs around 13.4-13.6V for most of the charging, as it should for LFP.

I have photos of the innards of this thing if anybody's interested.

And no I'm not affiliated with the seller... In fact I put off buying them for a long time since I didn't like the seller's flippant responses to my technical questions, but eventually I found some info elsewhere online, took the risk, and am happy with what I got.

  #19  
Old September 10th 20, 11:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
2G
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Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 3:02:28 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
Again, these have nothing to do with the batteries in the subject line, which are LFP, well documented, from a long time reputable supplier. If you want to have a discussion of some No-Name brand ebay special, I suggest you start a separate thread on them.

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 1:34:40 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 4:04:57 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 9/10/20 7:55 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 12:48:52 AM UTC-4, wrote:
The bluetooth feature is a gimmick. What really makes these attractive is that they are about 1/2 the price of equivalent the K2 battery!

Some months ago I bought several "PowerSync" (related to "PowerSonic"?) LFP batteries, the non-smart version (no Bluetooth), for about $32 each, from a US seller on ebay. Rated 7.5 AH, and the same standard "brick" size as the common 7AH SLA batteries. At that price, they are cheaper than SLAs (since they will last at least twice as many years). I cut one open, so I can tell you that (1) the ones sold at that price were 2 years old when sold (date stamped late 2017), not great but no big deal, (2) the cells are the small 18650 size, like the ones used in laptop batteries (but LFP chemistry in this case), and (3) yes it includes a full BMS including cell balancing. I've used them in an electric bicycle and in an electric mower, so I can report they work OK in high-drain use (but the BMS shuts off at about 20 amps). In the glider I prefer the larger 12AH battery, but one of these smaller 7.5AH ones is my standard backup plan.

Note that a "7AH" SLA battery that is 2-3 years old will only give you about 3 AH or so if you don't want to damage it by fully discharging it, and the voltage will be pretty low by then. Tested one of these 7.5 AH LFPs by discharging 6 AH out of it, voltage was still well over 13V. The spec sheet claims they are "designed to work with AGM chargers", so you don't even need a new charger if you switch to them from SLAs, although something like the Imax B6 is better.


Three things wrong with the claim that these are LFP batteries. You
said voltage was well over 13 volts after almost a full discharge, but
real LFP's are 12.8 nominal, with four cells. 12.5 volts near the end
of a discharge cycle would be a lot more believable.

The fact that the cells are 18650 form factor should be a tipoff in itself.

Most importantly, LFP doesn't have the energy density needed to pack
that much power into four small cells.

So what you have is some Li-ion battery mis-branded as being LFP.

-Dave

Not at all. The thing is packed with 20 of these cells (4S 5P configuration), 1500 mAH per 18650 cell is reasonable. LFP is famous for holding the voltage above 13V (for a 4-cell battery) until it's almost empty. I didn't discharge it all the way, only 6AH out of the nameplate 7.5AH. (I didn't care enough about the exact capacity to risk stressing the battery with a full discahrge.) If these cells were really Li-ion then 4S would be around 14..4V nominal and much higher than that when charging. Instead it runs around 13.4-13.6V for most of the charging, as it should for LFP.

I have photos of the innards of this thing if anybody's interested.

And no I'm not affiliated with the seller... In fact I put off buying them for a long time since I didn't like the seller's flippant responses to my technical questions, but eventually I found some info elsewhere online, took the risk, and am happy with what I got.


I concur. I think this is the moshe? is referring to:
https://tinyurl.com/yy22xxvc
It does not have a datasheet, so I don't know how moshe can assert there is a BMS. For sure, Powersync has nothing to do with PowerSonic. More likely, the name was chosen to confuse buyers into jumping to that conclusion. There are reputable LFP battery manufacturers out there, so there is no good reason to buy this.

Tom
  #20  
Old September 11th 20, 05:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Posts: 51
Default Powersonic "Smart Battery" tested

On Thursday, September 10, 2020 at 11:53:38 AM UTC-4, jfitch wrote:
Powersonic is unrelated to "Powersync" whoever that is. Powersonic is a Japanese company that has been making batteries for decades.

Are you confusing them with Panasonic? Powersonic is an American company.

https://www.power-sonic.com/about/
 




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