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On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 15th 20, 04:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

I saw one in Moriarty a few years back.Â* As I recall it was a gas
powered version.Â* And, while I liked the look of it, it appeared to me
to be very lightly constructed.Â* Just my opinion.

On 10/14/2020 10:31 AM, Neal Alders wrote:
I have explored the website, was just looking to see if anyone had any experience or an opinion on them is all.


--
Dan, 5J
  #22  
Old October 15th 20, 05:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 465
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω


--
Dan, 5J


Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.
  #23  
Old October 15th 20, 06:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

On 10/14/20 10:31 AM, Neal Alders wrote:
I have explored the website, was just looking to see if anyone had any experience or an opinion on them is all.


50 hp in a two place side by side with stubby wings, engine mfg out of
business. I would say it's significantly underpowered if trying to fly
out of higher elevation airports, anything over 4500 ft msl on a hot day
with two people.
  #24  
Old October 15th 20, 06:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

On 10/15/20 10:08 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω
http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω


--
Dan, 5J


Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


Mike Adams, the old LS dealer specifically told me not to put a battery
in the tail of my LS-4 for that reason.
  #25  
Old October 15th 20, 07:31 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 465
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:23:28 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 10/15/20 10:08 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J


Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


Mike Adams, the old LS dealer specifically told me not to put a battery
in the tail of my LS-4 for that reason.


A buddy of mine flies an LS4 and puts a rather heavy conglomeration of gel-cells in the top of the tail. Alas he needs that for the weight and balance. That seems common? If not a battery, then a tank of water in the tail. Why don't glider manufacturers include a metal blob inside the tail boom that can be adjusted fore and aft to get your CG where you want it? I imagine something like a long screw with a hand crank. Would need some sort of indicator though, so you'll know what you dialed.
  #26  
Old October 15th 20, 08:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

On 10/15/20 12:31 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 1:23:28 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
On 10/15/20 10:08 AM, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
Good points John.

A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea:Â* Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?

On 10/14/2020 12:49 PM, John DeRosa OHM Ω
http://aviation.derosaweb.net
wrote:
Interesting ideas. Just a couple of comments (you knew this was coming)...

- It seems that most (many?) (new?) gliders have an existing space for one or more batteries in various locations. The common places seem to be behind the pilot near the spars in the cargo area and/or at the top of the vertical stabilizer.

- Each of these locations fits a specific size of battery for obvious standardizing reasons.

- One of the most common "standard" size batteries that I have found used in gliders are the brick sized 5.95"(150mm) x 2.56"(65mm) x 3.7"(95mm) with blade/faston type connections. These rechargeable batteries often have "1207", "1270" or "EB-12" in their model numbers.

- This size of SLA batteries have been around for many, many, years. As mentioned above we see them in kid's motorized toys. I found them in computer UPS systems, security alarm systems, and in those large car battery jump starters (with air pump, light, 12Vdc output, AC inverter, USB, kitchen sink).

- Because this size of battery is used to power such a wide diversity of systems they are very commonly available at hardware, auto parts and battery stores in nearly ever sized city, not to mention at Walmart and Amazon. I found this out a few years back after forgetting my (lithium) batteries and ran to the local NAPA to get replacement (SLA) batteries and fuse holders. I could have also borrowed from fellow glider pilots.

Bottom line: Moving to a battery system as found in battery powered tools is depending on something that is propriety in size and pin connections and is less likely to be found in a pinch let alone years from now. Sorry, I like easy to find and non-proprietary batteries.

As always, my $0.02.

- John DeRosa OHM Ω

--
Dan, 5J

Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


Mike Adams, the old LS dealer specifically told me not to put a battery
in the tail of my LS-4 for that reason.


A buddy of mine flies an LS4 and puts a rather heavy conglomeration of gel-cells in the top of the tail. Alas he needs that for the weight and balance. That seems common? If not a battery, then a tank of water in the tail. Why don't glider manufacturers include a metal blob inside the tail boom that can be adjusted fore and aft to get your CG where you want it? I imagine something like a long screw with a hand crank. Would need some sort of indicator though, so you'll know what you dialed.


It's common to put batteries there although finding actual gell cells
would be almost impossible these days. I did go ahead and put a 14V 5
A-H sla battery there for w&b. Water tanks in the tail are generally
down low, if installed.
  #27  
Old October 15th 20, 10:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 718
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


Mike Adams, the old LS dealer specifically told me not to put a battery
in the tail of my LS-4 for that reason.


A buddy of mine flies an LS4 and puts a rather heavy conglomeration of gel-cells in the top of the tail. Alas he needs that for the weight and balance. That seems common? If not a battery, then a tank of water in the tail. Why don't glider manufacturers include a metal blob inside the tail boom that can be adjusted fore and aft to get your CG where you want it? I imagine something like a long screw with a hand crank. Would need some sort of indicator though, so you'll know what you dialed.


It's common to put batteries there although finding actual gell cells
would be almost impossible these days. I did go ahead and put a 14V 5
A-H sla battery there for w&b. Water tanks in the tail are generally
down low, if installed.


SZD-55 has a 2.2 kg SLA battery low in the fin, and a water tank just forward of it; works very well.
  #28  
Old October 16th 20, 10:28 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
andy l
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Posts: 64
Default On board battery(ies) for powering radios/Flarm etc

On Thursday, 15 October 2020 at 17:09:37 UTC+1, wrote:
On Thursday, October 15, 2020 at 11:23:10 AM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
A question to the ether that, perhaps the manufacturers will see and
think is a good idea: Why not mount the tail battery low on the tail
rather than at the top where it makes an inverted pendulum? Maybe a door
at the aft side of the tail boom above the tail wheel?


Yeah I've always wondered about that. Any added mass at the top of the tail only increases the chance of damage in case of a groundloop.


So does cutting a hole in the location given

It could be strengthened around the edges of the hole, of course, and that extra structure can go towards the extra weight needed
 




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