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Thielert (Diesel Engines)



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 11th 08, 04:18 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning, rec.aviation.piloting
Charles Talleyrand
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Posts: 69
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

This data is from 2006, they Thielert has not released a 2007 annual
report yet.

The annual report for Thielert, which makes diesel engines for certain
single-engine Cessnas, Pipers, and Diamonds, shows an increase in
sales of aircraft engines from 22 million Euros to 31 million Euros.
That's a 44% increase. It's probably over 1000 engines in total.

They are the third largest piston engine maker in the world (which
surprises me, I would have thought Lycoming, Continental, and Rotax).

The total market for piston aircraft engines is about 13,000 including
both new planes and the larger replacement market.

They aim to sell helicopter engines in 2009.

The best quote from the annual report: "We aim to achieve a market
share in piston aircraft engines of over 50% in the medium term. The
necessary demand and customer base are already in place."

Maybe diesel engines are catching on??????
  #2  
Old February 11th 08, 04:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning, rec.aviation.piloting
William Hung[_2_]
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Posts: 349
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

On Feb 10, 10:18*pm, Charles Talleyrand wrote:
This data is from 2006, they Thielert has not released a 2007 annual
report yet.

The annual report for Thielert, which makes diesel engines for certain
single-engine Cessnas, Pipers, and Diamonds, shows an increase in
sales of aircraft engines from 22 million Euros to 31 million Euros.
That's a 44% increase. *It's probably over 1000 engines in total.

They are the third largest piston engine maker in the world (which
surprises me, I would have thought Lycoming, Continental, and Rotax).

The total market for piston aircraft engines is about 13,000 including
both new planes and the larger replacement market.

They aim to sell helicopter engines in 2009.

The best quote from the annual report: *"We aim to achieve a market
share in piston aircraft engines of over 50% in the medium term. *The
necessary demand and customer base are already in place."

Maybe diesel engines are catching on??????


The Diamond twin also flys the Thielert Diesels.

Wil
  #3  
Old February 11th 08, 03:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]
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Posts: 428
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

Charles Talleyrand wrote:


Maybe diesel engines are catching on??????


Might want to read either last month's or the month's before Aviation
Consumer. Lots of maintenance and service issues.
  #4  
Old February 12th 08, 07:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning, rec.aviation.piloting
Paul kgyy
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Posts: 283
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

On Feb 11, 9:23 am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Charles Talleyrand wrote:

Maybe diesel engines are catching on??????


Might want to read either last month's or the month's before Aviation
Consumer. Lots of maintenance and service issues.


And attitude issues...
  #5  
Old February 13th 08, 09:29 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Alan[_6_]
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Posts: 163
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

In article Paul kgyy writes:
On Feb 11, 9:23 am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Charles Talleyrand wrote:

Maybe diesel engines are catching on??????


Might want to read either last month's or the month's before Aviation
Consumer. Lots of maintenance and service issues.


And attitude issues...


People actually pay for Aviation Consumer? I used to get their regular
teaser ads, and was not impressed. More sensationalism from picked details.
Some good stuff, but much of the real stuff was obvious.

Alan
  #6  
Old February 13th 08, 10:23 AM posted to rec.aviation.owning, rec.aviation.piloting
WingFlaps
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Posts: 621
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

On Feb 12, 3:23*am, Gig 601XL Builder
wrote:
Charles Talleyrand wrote:

Maybe diesel engines are catching on??????


Might want to read either last month's or the month's before Aviation
Consumer. Lots of maintenance and service issues.


Why should that be? Generally, diesels are great at running at high
power for long periods and they are also the powerplant of choice for
high reliability when fuel consumption is also an issue (ruling out
turbines) -or am I wrong?

Cheers
  #7  
Old February 13th 08, 03:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning, rec.aviation.piloting
William Hung[_2_]
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Posts: 349
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

On Feb 13, 5:14*am, Peter wrote:
WingFlaps wrote

Why should that be? Generally, diesels are great at running at high
power for long periods and they are also *the powerplant of choice for
high reliability when fuel consumption is also an issue (ruling out
turbines) -or am I wrong?


Diesels are indeed great in applications where they can be designed
without weight issues e.g. ships and trucks.

It appears that their problems (Thielert specifically - there is no
other diesel actually flying any meaningful hours at present) are to
do with a lightweight car engine - 1.7 litres - being run at 130HP (or
close to it) for 100% of the time. The original car engine would be
running at 20-30HP, maybe 100HP very briefly in a big Merc on a German
motorway (no speed limits). But an aeroplane is a whole different
situation.

They also had some specific issues e.g. corrosion due to the coolant,
but all these can and will be solved.

They are now moving to a slightly different 2 litre design which they
hope will provide that extra bit of ruggedness.

But very significantly Diamond sell only their DA42 twin in the USA,
and, on a twin, engine failures *enroute* are manageable. They wisely
sell the DA40 single with a 180HP Lyco, in the USA.

The old Lycos, OTOH, can run at 75% power continuously and provided
the CHT is well managed (itself a science, as Deakin fans will know,
but no rocket science) it won't fall apart for 2000hrs. They also
don't appear to have any consistent catastrophic failure issues -
ignoring the odd Lyco crankshaft which has been hardened but they
forgot to temper it


A lot of interesting info from you and WingFlaps there Peter. I also
read somewhere recently that the Diamond Twin diesels that uses
Thielerts have limited life on the engine. I can't remember how many
hours, but at the end of the max hour, Thielert will replace your
engines with a fresh rebuild for $25k each, instead of rebuilding
yours for you. In essence, you are actually renting the engine $25k
for that specified hours flown. I suppose this is good and bad. Good
to know your DOC on the engine, bad that you don't get to keep the
core or run the engine past TBO if it was still running good.

Wil
  #8  
Old February 13th 08, 05:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,749
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

Alan,

People actually pay for Aviation Consumer?


The most valuable 39 bucks (or whatever the subscription is) I spend
per year in aviation.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #9  
Old February 13th 08, 06:16 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
Gig 601XL Builder[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 428
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

Thomas Borchert wrote:
Alan,

People actually pay for Aviation Consumer?


The most valuable 39 bucks (or whatever the subscription is) I spend
per year in aviation.



I agree. I subscribed several years ago when my company was thinking of
buying a Cherokee 6 and I wanted access to the back issue database
online. I've read just about every word in each issue since.

No Ads means no advertisers they have to suck-up to.

  #10  
Old February 13th 08, 08:05 PM posted to rec.aviation.owning,rec.aviation.piloting
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,892
Default Thielert (Diesel Engines)

In rec.aviation.owning Peter wrote:

William Hung wrote


A lot of interesting info from you and WingFlaps there Peter. I also
read somewhere recently that the Diamond Twin diesels that uses
Thielerts have limited life on the engine. I can't remember how many
hours, but at the end of the max hour, Thielert will replace your
engines with a fresh rebuild for $25k each, instead of rebuilding
yours for you. In essence, you are actually renting the engine $25k
for that specified hours flown. I suppose this is good and bad. Good
to know your DOC on the engine, bad that you don't get to keep the
core or run the engine past TBO if it was still running good.


Yes, something like that.


AFAIK this was forced on them by all the failures. Basically nobody
would buy a DA40TDI/DA42 unless they got such an engine warranty


$25k (if that's the figure in the U.S. market) is probably comparable
to fully overhauling say an IO360 anyway. If this works, one could
regard it as just a different business model.


But I bet the "scrap" engines get reworked by Thielert and most parts
re-used. The way the Lyco exchange engine market works (people
overhaul *their own* engine when the engine is young), the average
exchange engine is made from ~ 5000hrs old crankcases etc and the
wisdom of this can probably be debated both ways (esp. when taking
into account undeclared prop strikes etc, and NDT on aluminium fails
to pick up subsurface cracks).


There used to be a blurb on their web site that said the "run out"
aero engines were rebuilt and sold for ground power service, i.e.
water pumping and such.


--
Jim Pennino

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