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ASW20 or LS6



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 31st 11, 02:06 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
binks
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Posts: 5
Default ASW20 or LS6

I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy
  #2  
Old January 31st 11, 02:10 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tim[_2_]
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Posts: 65
Default ASW20 or LS6

On Jan 30, 7:06*pm, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy


LS6 is the best handling ship I've ever flown. I got in one in the
Southern French Alps and flew in the first World Grand Prix with zero
hours in type and felt like I could do anything I needed with the
ship. Given the random and weak weather, I had to do some pretty
marginal things and it Never bit me :-) Unfortunately, "Z27" met a sad
fate a few years later in the French Alps. :-(

Tim McAllister EY
  #3  
Old January 31st 11, 03:19 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Posts: 952
Default ASW20 or LS6

On Jan 30, 6:10*pm, Tim wrote:
On Jan 30, 7:06*pm, binks wrote:

I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. *All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy


LS6 is the best handling ship I've ever flown. I got in one in the
Southern French Alps and flew in the first World Grand Prix with zero
hours in type and felt like I could do anything I needed with the
ship. Given the random and weak weather, I had to do some pretty
marginal things and it Never bit me :-) Unfortunately, "Z27" met a sad
fate a few years later in the French Alps. :-(

Tim McAllister EY


I think the spin reputation of the ASW-20 is a bit undeserved. Mine
behaved perfectly predictably once I got the CG forward of the aft
limit where the previous owner had left it! The LS-6 does have a
narrower cockpit, but this should only be a problem if you have really
broad shoulders. I suggest you try both before deciding. There isn't
much difference in performance between the two.

Mike
  #4  
Old January 31st 11, 03:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default ASW20 or LS6

On 1/30/2011 5:06 PM, binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy


I suggest it hinge on glider and trailer condition, and price. If you
plan to land in short fields over trees, go for the ASW 20. The landing
flaps are awesome. If you can find an ASW 20 B/C, you also get automatic
hookup elevator and a great disk brake.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
  #5  
Old January 31st 11, 04:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jcarlyle
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Posts: 522
Default ASW20 or LS6

I've flown the standard class version of both those gliders, ie, the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. I'm 5'11" and 200 lbs, wear a parachute, and am
long in the torso.

Regarding the LS6, you probably won't fit in if you use a chair type
parachute, but a backpack type will work fine. If your torso is
average length, your height shouldn't be a problem - but if you have a
long torso you might not have enough head room. Your upper arms are
what is going to hit the sides of the canopy rail - if you have thick,
muscular arms you might not fit, but if you're average it'll be fine.

Don't make the mistake of making the trailer type and condition
subservient to the plane. A good trailer makes assembly and retrieves
a joy, a bad one could make you fly less often and forgo doing XC.
Condition of the gel coat and the instrument package is also a
consideration.

Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.

-John

binks wrote:
I am looking to purchase my first glider. I have been looking at the
ASW20 and the LS6. Any suggestions on which glider would be the best
all around? I have heard that the LS6 has a narrow cockpit. I am 6'2"
200 lbs. and would be wearing a parachute. Also heard that the ASW20
can be a little unforgiving to the uninitiated in the spin department.
Both seem to have very similar performance data. All that being said
it is appearing to me it may be Ford vs Chevy

  #6  
Old January 31st 11, 05:04 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default ASW20 or LS6

On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:


Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.


You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead,
compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for
fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's
better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
  #7  
Old January 31st 11, 05:15 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Posts: 1,939
Default ASW20 or LS6

On 1/30/2011 8:04 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:


Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.


You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead,
compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation for
fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue it's
better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too.


And I should've pointed out the ASW-19 is NOT the std class version of
the ASW 20. It was an entirely new flapped design with a smaller, higher
aspect ratio, thinner wing. The std class version is the Pegasus, built
in France.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
  #8  
Old January 31st 11, 07:28 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
KevinFinke
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Posts: 72
Default ASW20 or LS6

"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France."

That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended
from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and
airfoil. In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class
ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype,
SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a
pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a
very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about
1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the
outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type
you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to
you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch.

Back to the topic. I've not flown the LS-6, but I do know they are
world renowned for their handling and in my opinion it was the best of
the 80's 15m ships. You won't be dissapointed with either one from a
performance standpoint. I'd agree with the advice given so far. Find a
version of each that you can sit in. This should have more influence
than the other factors. You need to fit! Minor comfort issues can be
addressed with trial and error and pillows and cushions. If you fit
comfortably in both, pick the one with the best instruments and
trailer. I'm 6'3 and fit wonderfully in the 20. There is something
real nice about having a little extra shoulder room!

-Kevin

  #9  
Old January 31st 11, 01:48 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
binks
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default ASW20 or LS6

On Jan 31, 1:28*am, KevinFinke wrote:
"The std class version is the Pegasus, built in France."

That's not really true Eric. While the Pegasus fuselage is descended
from the ASW-20, the wing is very different. Different planform and
airfoil. *In fact, there has only ever been one true standard class
ASW-20, and that is the ship that I own. It's the ASW-24 prototype,
SN24000. It was built from ASW-20B molds, but was modified to be a
pure standard class ship. I don't have the use of flaps, but I have a
very interesting dual aileron setup. The inboard ailerons end about
1.5 meters from the wing root, and they throw differently than the
outboard. It's a lovely machine with a very fast roll rate. Next type
you voyage to Ephrata you'll have to look me up and I can show it to
you. As for it's performance, it will eat a Pegasus for lunch.

Back to the topic. I've not flown the LS-6, but I do know they are
world renowned for their handling and in my opinion it was the best of
the 80's 15m ships. You won't be dissapointed with either one from a
performance standpoint. I'd agree with the advice given so far. Find a
version of each that you can sit in. This should have more influence
than the other factors. You need to fit! Minor comfort issues can be
addressed with trial and error and pillows and cushions. If you fit
comfortably in both, pick the one with the best instruments and
trailer. I'm 6'3 and fit wonderfully in the 20. There is something
real nice about having a little extra shoulder room!

-Kevin


Thanks for all the information, it has been a great help. I do plan to
sit in both before I make a decision

I did not mention that the ASW20 is the "B" model and has had the
wings refinished about 8 years ago. They only re-gelcoated the top
side and not the bottom side. the bottom side does have some gelcoat
cracking. I have not seen it yet to determine the condition of the
cracks. I do know that winglets were custom added at the same time
that the wings were refinished by the same company that did the
refinishing. From my conversations with the current owner of the LS6
the wings have been entirely regel coated a few years back (not sure
how long ago) but he does say that the gelcoat is in excellent
condition. Also it is the LS6A model. Both gliders have Cobra trailers
that appear to be in excellant condition
  #10  
Old January 31st 11, 01:57 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Nigel Cottrell[_2_]
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Posts: 10
Default ASW20 or LS6

I owned an ASW 20F for some years which was ballasted to the aft C of G
limit ( the trim system isn't the greatest piece of design and forward C
of G just makes it worse) and it was a very docile forgiving glider. As
stated earlier the flap system is still the best ever devised which is
very comforting for field landings.
Having said that on the type discussion group Yahoo site there were
numerous posts suggesting that the later B and C models with the blown
wing are not as forgiving, although I have not flown either so can't
confirm if this is true.
As with all Schleicher products it is the quality of the refinish which
matters as the Vorgelat which they use is complete c**p and will have worn
out years ago.




At 04:15 31 January 2011, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 8:04 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 1/30/2011 7:17 PM, jcarlyle wrote:


Personally, after experiencing the handling and feel of the LS8 I
wouldn't give it up to buy another Schleicher. Don't get me wrong,
Schleicher builds a fine glider - but it just doesn't compare to the
way the Rolladen Schneider flies.


You shouldn't judge Schleicher by comparing your experience in the
ASW-19 and the LS-8. They are at least a generation apart - instead,
compare the 8 to the ASW 24. The ASW 20 has a tremendous reputation

for
fine handling, every bit as good as the LS6, and many would argue

it's
better. Those bendy wings make it a delight in rough conditions, too.


And I should've pointed out the ASW-19 is NOT the std class version of
the ASW 20. It was an entirely new flapped design with a smaller, higher


aspect ratio, thinner wing. The std class version is the Pegasus, built
in France.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)


 




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