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Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings



 
 
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  #41  
Old March 1st 17, 08:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
CindyB[_2_]
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Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:04:02 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why?


Like Mr. Kellett (yeeaay buddy), I teach both, and teach selection of technique based on machine and landing surface. What "works" in the component for one ship might not be best for another. I teach - the pilot must choose what tool they use, and you better be able to describe and use either.

What I don't see discussed here, and would be valuable for newer pilots and many more-senior CFIs would be the ability to teach the students about using their best ballbearing at C-4 vertebrae, and be able to LOOK ( peek intermittently) at their wingtips to see if they are level, or low to the wind, or HOW close to earth the tip is.

You can do this any time by "windjamming", flying ailerons of the glider on the ground in a good breeze. Making them place the wingtip at your palm, while you do deep knee bends at the wingtip or show them loss of aileron control when that tip makes 1 degree too-high in the cross component. When they understand the concept of "what would you do walking around today wearing a sombrero and wanting to keep the hat on your head" you are ready to have them use a wind-tip-low technique on takeoff and landings.

Really. You or they can keep the glider on centerline and look at a tip. It's just a peek. Getting the pilot to de-link the hands and the chin is a valuable skill. Looking around more is also a valuable practice. When they do it a bit, their confidence grows.

And worse case? I have slalomed the tips over alternating obstacles on outlanding. But that wasn't a huge crosswind event, thankfully. You could simulate something like that on a calm day with tethered helium balloons....
for those who need an event to increase skills. Just think about runway lights and repair bills for a fair motivation.

Best wishes,

Cindy B

  #42  
Old March 1st 17, 08:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce Hoult
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Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

On Wednesday, March 1, 2017 at 10:19:07 PM UTC+3, CindyB wrote:
On Saturday, February 25, 2017 at 1:04:02 PM UTC-8, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Do you crab or forward slip landing in x-winds and why?


Like Mr. Kellett (yeeaay buddy), I teach both, and teach selection of technique based on machine and landing surface. What "works" in the component for one ship might not be best for another. I teach - the pilot must choose what tool they use, and you better be able to describe and use either.

What I don't see discussed here, and would be valuable for newer pilots and many more-senior CFIs would be the ability to teach the students about using their best ballbearing at C-4 vertebrae, and be able to LOOK ( peek intermittently) at their wingtips to see if they are level, or low to the wind, or HOW close to earth the tip is.

You can do this any time by "windjamming", flying ailerons of the glider on the ground in a good breeze. Making them place the wingtip at your palm, while you do deep knee bends at the wingtip or show them loss of aileron control when that tip makes 1 degree too-high in the cross component. When they understand the concept of "what would you do walking around today wearing a sombrero and wanting to keep the hat on your head" you are ready to have them use a wind-tip-low technique on takeoff and landings.

Really. You or they can keep the glider on centerline and look at a tip. It's just a peek. Getting the pilot to de-link the hands and the chin is a valuable skill. Looking around more is also a valuable practice. When they do it a bit, their confidence grows.

And worse case? I have slalomed the tips over alternating obstacles on outlanding. But that wasn't a huge crosswind event, thankfully. You could simulate something like that on a calm day with tethered helium balloons.....
for those who need an event to increase skills. Just think about runway lights and repair bills for a fair motivation.


I remember when I started, instructors telling me my wings weren't level, and I couldn't tell if they were or not in flight without looking at both tips. (I recall Lucy Wills commenting on this too in the video of her lessons)

After a while you don't need to look at the wingtips any more.

I agree that keeping the wings level in a wind on the ground, and gently finding the limits, is an excellent exercise. And again, after you've done that for a while you don't *need* to actually look.

Incidentally, in instructing, I don't think I've ever told a student that their wings aren't level. I ask them if they can tell that they're slowly turning to the left (or right).
  #43  
Old March 2nd 17, 01:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default Do you crab or forward slip in X wind landings

Thanks Cindy B for the instructing ideas there.

Way back getting instruction in a Cessna I once got scolded by an instructor for looking out to the side during the flare in order to better gauge my height above the runway. The instructor thought that moving my head would have my hands follow. Maybe that is the case for some students, but it certainly wasn't in my case. After all, I've been riding bicycles for years, keeping the handlebar steady while looking all around for traffic.

Regarding knowing when the wings are level, it is hard for a student to tell by looking at one wing tip due to dihedral. It looks like the wing is sloped up, because it is. Thus the need to look at the other wingtip and compare. It gets easier when you (1) get used to the specific ship, (2) learn to notice the relationship of the horizon in front of you and the seat below you, and (3) learn to notice even a slow drift in heading.

 




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