Fatal Towplane Accident 5-9-20

seen, place the tow hook over the towing ships CG.
My 2 cents,
JJ

Mic drop?

Clever concept. Would the release have to be precisely at the CG/CM? If for example it were above the CG/CM point, then would the tow pilot have to apply constant down elevator to overcome the asymmetric leverage caused by the glider's drag? Would the glider pilot be much busier trying to fly in line with the longitudinal axis of the tug?

So this confirms for me what I do on every flight is a good course of action (even though it has been a very controversial subject on this site)... That is, I hold the release handle during tow. No, I don't latch my fingers around it and grip it like I'm coming out of a bull riding chute on an angry bull. I do however, have physical contact with it through the first 1000 ft of tow. I grip it with my index finger and middle finger (mimicking a pair of scissors wanting to cut the handle). There is no way to accidentally release in turbulence, but more importantly there is no searching for the handle if I need to get off. The other side benefit is that it prevents me from dealing with stupid distractions in the cockpit since one hand is on the stick, the other is touching the release.

Ok, let the negative reactions begin... (I've got my popcorn and beer).

The moment arm up (or down), from the tow ships CG to a tow hook directly above, would be quite short....... not much more than say 4 feet. I would think correcting for pressures applied at 48� would be well within flight controls to compensate. Constant back pressure could be trimmed out. In the RC world, the tow ships are normally quite stable, as is Glider..........problems arise when too much pilot input is applied on either end of the rope! Guide wires from the top of the rudder fin to the tip of both stabilizer tips could keep the tow rope away from the tows tail feathers.
Just thinking outside the box,
JJ

Has anyone investigated placing the tow hook directly over(or under) the tow planes center of gravity?

I'm trying to envision what that would look like. To be at the CG, there would have to be as much behind and below and ahead and above. How would you rig this without hitting the tail on low or high tow?

Maybe 'over' the CG would eliminate above and below, but still don't see how.

Not seeing how, does not mean there isn't a way, so how do the RC folks do it?

Ya Know JJ Thats a interesting idea
Another major problem, I think, is when the glider starts really kiting like in this Byron accident, is that it puts quite a pull on the rope and radically slows the tug down, And typically the tug is already at a pretty slow speed.
This kiting situation is a major can of worms.
It can and does get out of control so quickly, as that Video clearly shows.
Nick
T

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 12:06:45 PM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 9:47:50 AM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Wednesday, May 13, 2020 at 8:23:35 PM UTC-7, Ramy wrote:
The glider was a 1-26.

Ramy

Too bad. A 1-26 flies fine without a canopy. I have purposefully opened the canopy of a 2-33, unbuckled and stood up to untangle the yaw string, and though flying slower than on tow it wasn't terribly dramatic. Perhaps if training in 2-33s opening the canopy to experience it should be part of the course. It is the surprise and fear of the unknown which certainly contributes to the loss of concentration.

An artificial horizon and electric guillotine is a complex solution. Is the tow rope at a sufficient angle in these situations to simply position a sharp knife above the rope such that it cuts itself if the angle is too high? Surely that has been thought of and rejected for good reasons?

" I have purposefully opened the canopy of a 2-33, unbuckled and stood up to untangle the yaw string, " Until this moment, I had considered you the smartest guy on this news group. And for a yaw string??? I haven't actually looked at one in years, my butt and damaged lower back give me much feed back. But seriously, other than unbuckling, airplanes, gliders, helicopters can all fly without windows or doors (check POH for which doors). I witnessed a piper arrow crash due to a door coming ajar on take off. I too have opened canopies on 2-33's (pumpkin drops) and even on a Grob 103, front canopy to clear the hot air. In risk v rewards annuals, a yaw string is just not worth unbuckling for, i.e., dying.

When I did that in a 2-33, I was 14 years old and the instructor in the back seat told be to do it. It seemed like a sporty suggestion, but really was not all that dramatic.

I think a very sharp knife would cut the rope instantly if it was under significant tension, and it would be if there were an attitude problem. If you put a small rope under a few hundred lbs tension you only have to touch it with a really sharp blade and it will cut. But there may be another mechanical solution, like a Tost hook mounted upside down. I just don't know if the angle is sufficiently different than a glider slightly high on tow to be able to differentiate the two. I've only taken a very few tows in the last 20 years of self launch ownership (mainly bi-annuals), and I don't miss them much.

While towing from the CG or AC of the towplane makes sense abstractly (boat towboats do precisely this to maintain directional control), it seems like there are practical problems involving the empennage.

Might have to rig a yolk-type system like the old Blanik L-13 yolk, but installed on the tug end. Model it using a toy Piper Pawnee; tie a string around the outboard strut wing attachment points on both sides (close enough to the CG). Tie the two strings together with a ring in a "Y" well beyond the tail feathers. Attach the tow rope to the ring and voila! If the glider climbs above the Pawnee, the yolk just pivots through the CG, avoiding a tail pull-up.

I thought through the hard stuff, you solve the little details.

I thought through the hard stuff, you solve the little details

Cadd drawings of CG-yolk attachment to discourage tail-lifting by kiting glider.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rjcl6hugl...rTU8p2W5a?dl=0

On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:43:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 6:52:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 4:05:38 PM UTC-4, BG wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

16Y had a device to cut the rope and would not have been effected by the tension on the rope. The snout at the tail is a tube that feeds the rope to electric spool behind the pilots seat after release.

We are looking for the tow rope.

BG

Indeed it was a canopy came open.

This thread, like almost every thread after a tug upset, goes through the same stuff about Schweizer releases and that kind of stuff. That has little to do with preventing the next one.
If the observation is that the canopy came open, and this is true, this accident is instructive in a very important way that we can use to help avoid the next one.
Assuming that the distraction of an open canopy caused loss of position control and crashed the tug, I submit the real cause of the accident is probably a blown checklist whereby the canopy was not locked and confirmed.
We can all honor the lost pilot by dedicating ourselves to using our checklist on every takeoff, and reminding our students and friends to do the same.
With the late start to the season for many,we are all more rusty than usual, good habits need to be reacquired. Checklists are among the most important.
With respect
UH

Agreed, proper use of the checklist may well have interdicted this event. One more thing has to be added and that's what we have all been told, time and time and time again.....FLY THE AIRPLANE, THE GLIDER, THE HELICOPTER. Whatever it is we are flying. Flying the glider in this situation means keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. Unfortunately this incident happened at an altitude which made recovery by the tow pilot impossible.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Shields up, and ready for flames.
I don't think checklists will prevent accidents like this. The only thing that will prevent accidents like this is change of attitude of pilots. We are suffering from lack of discipline behind controls. Flying gliders is a risky activity and it requires full concentration and discipline at all times, and that is what is lacking. Having been trained by military pilots, I learnt the value of cockpit discipline from the very early flights. We regularly performed double holes, and never had a kiting accident or any other tow accident in the 9 years I flew on the old continent. How is that possible you might ask, the answer is discipline. Not following discipline quickly earned you being kicked out of the club, without ever coming back. Discipline and full concentration is the key, and we simply don't have enough of it..

On Thursday, May 14, 2020 at 11:40:49 PM UTC-4, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 7:43:32 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 6:52:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 4:05:38 PM UTC-4, BG wrote:
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 7:57:01 AM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
Very sad to read this tragic news this morning.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2020/0...fatal.html?m=1

Comments (anonymous) on the webpage indicate kiting may have been a significant factor.

Sincere condolences to the family of the tow pilot and to the members of the club.

Paul Agnew
Jupiter, FL

16Y had a device to cut the rope and would not have been effected by the tension on the rope. The snout at the tail is a tube that feeds the rope to electric spool behind the pilots seat after release.

We are looking for the tow rope.

BG

Indeed it was a canopy came open.

This thread, like almost every thread after a tug upset, goes through the same stuff about Schweizer releases and that kind of stuff. That has little to do with preventing the next one.
If the observation is that the canopy came open, and this is true, this accident is instructive in a very important way that we can use to help avoid the next one.
Assuming that the distraction of an open canopy caused loss of position control and crashed the tug, I submit the real cause of the accident is probably a blown checklist whereby the canopy was not locked and confirmed.
We can all honor the lost pilot by dedicating ourselves to using our checklist on every takeoff, and reminding our students and friends to do the same.
With the late start to the season for many,we are all more rusty than usual, good habits need to be reacquired. Checklists are among the most important.
With respect
UH

Agreed, proper use of the checklist may well have interdicted this event. One more thing has to be added and that's what we have all been told, time and time and time again.....FLY THE AIRPLANE, THE GLIDER, THE HELICOPTER. Whatever it is we are flying. Flying the glider in this situation means keeping your eyes on the tow plane and maintaining position. Unfortunately this incident happened at an altitude which made recovery by the tow pilot impossible.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Shields up, and ready for flames.
I don't think checklists will prevent accidents like this. The only thing that will prevent accidents like this is change of attitude of pilots. We are suffering from lack of discipline behind controls. Flying gliders is a risky activity and it requires full concentration and discipline at all times, and that is what is lacking. Having been trained by military pilots, I learnt the value of cockpit discipline from the very early flights. We regularly performed double holes, and never had a kiting accident or any other tow accident in the 9 years I flew on the old continent. How is that possible you might ask, the answer is discipline. Not following discipline quickly earned you being kicked out of the club, without ever coming back. Discipline and full concentration is the key, and we simply don't have enough of it.

Should have said "double tows" not "double holes"