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PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Many newstandard Features!



 
 
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  #51  
Old November 19th 20, 10:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 319
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On this page I show it as a feature bottom of table..

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm

We will see when Flarm answers the question I emailed this morning.

Does the Fusion transmit Flarm on both A & B antennas FCC approved in the USA.


Richard
www.craggyaero.com


  #52  
Old November 19th 20, 11:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Moshe Braner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems like
a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we
are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection, to
"update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep our
charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle
updating Flarm!


I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend
everybody do them. My problem is with it stopping to operate if for
whatever reason somebody didn't do the update yet, even if in fact the
data exchanged still allows interoperability. That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around. And it may have contributed to the
recent collision we were discussing. There are better ways to nudge
people to update the firmware.
  #53  
Old November 19th 20, 11:12 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Moshe Braner
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 114
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


I also agree with Dan that having to buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna is ridiculous. Yes it's an optional feature, but it shouldn't
be. They've already developed this feature and it's built into the
device. And it is important for the safety benefit. That's different
from some of the other optional features like IGC-certified logging,
which are separate from the collision avoidance purpose, and they can
make those who want that feature pay extra while keeping the price lower
(?) for the rest.

  #54  
Old November 19th 20, 11:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/19/20 11:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an
optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for your
new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the purchase,
unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay
for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems like
a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we
are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection, to
"update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep our
charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle
updating Flarm!


Eric,

A lot is made of such features as IGC recording. But, since my glider
happens to have an engine, the IGC recording is useless unless I buy a
license for it. The firmware has all been written and is installed and,
with a few characters inserted during the "installation", it will function.

Fortunately, I knew that going in and did not need an ENL license. My
ClearNav and ClearNav vario each perform the engine noise recording
function and at zero extra cost. Now I suppose ClearNav could disable
the function, lower their price by $50 and then charge $50 to enable the
function but I think that would just **** people off.

--
Dan
5J
  #55  
Old November 19th 20, 11:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/19/20 1:58 PM, kinsell wrote:
On 11/19/20 11:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying
an optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for
your new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the
purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead
letting you pay for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems
like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots,
we are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection,
to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep
our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our
parachute every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also
handle updating Flarm!


I think Dan was talking about paying extra to turn on features, such as
audio output jack, IGC logging, ENL for IGC logging, using the B
antenna, etc.Â* This new PowerFlarm makes that stuff standard, rather
than an la carte.

The documentation provided by Richard shows the flarm B antenna being
usable as standard, but as a receive only antenna.Â* I expect it can
transmit, but only if the FCC ever approves that.


Oh crap! You mean I'd have to pay to have the audio jack enabled,
too??? Good thing my ClearNav has its own Bitchin' Betty and at no
extra charge. ;-)

--
Dan
5J
  #56  
Old November 19th 20, 11:22 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,601
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On 11/19/20 3:06 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A
and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B"
antenna. Â*Â*Isn't that like buying a license to active the passenger
side seat belt in a car?Â* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on
working after the firmware "expires"?Â* (As long as the data packets
are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated
by law. Do you want to go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying
an optional feature") is like buying the "primo" optional interior for
your new car, except you can do it anytime, even years after the
purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead
letting you pay for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going
to whine about the 10 minutes it takes me to read the update
instructions and load it into the glider. The present system seems
like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in
capability, at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots,
we are required to "update" our gliders every year with an inspection,
to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to keep
our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our
parachute every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also
handle updating Flarm!


I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend
everybody do them.Â* My problem is with it stopping to operate if for
whatever reason somebody didn't do the update yet, even if in fact the
data exchanged still allows interoperability.Â* That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around.Â* And it may have contributed to the
recent collision we were discussing.Â* There are better ways to nudge
people to update the firmware.


I just updated to firmware version 7.02 today. According to my computer
files, the date on the previous firmware was December 2019, so I guess I
was in no danger of a loss of function. I went back to my glider's
logbook and added this update to the end of the last annual inspection
writeup. Next year, at annual, my IA will remind me that I need to
update the Flarm.

--
Dan
5J
  #57  
Old November 19th 20, 11:33 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 2:06 PM:
On 11/19/2020 1:21 PM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. **Isn't that like
buying a license to active the passenger side seat belt in a car?* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on working after the
firmware "expires"?* (As long as the data packets are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated by law. Do you want to
go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an optional feature") is
like buying the "primo" optional interior for your new car, except you can do it anytime,
even years after the purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay for only
what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going to whine about the 10
minutes it takes me to read the update instructions and load it into the glider. The present
system seems like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in capability,
at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we are required to "update" our
gliders every year with an inspection, to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight
review, to keep our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle updating Flarm!


I have no problem with the updates, I do them, and certainly recommend everybody do them.* My
problem is with it stopping to operate if for whatever reason somebody didn't do the update
yet, even if in fact the data exchanged still allows interoperability.* That is an unnecessary
hit to safety, for everybody around.* And it may have contributed to the recent collision we
were discussing.* There are better ways to nudge people to update the firmware.


I'm not sure it goes inoperative to nudge the pilot; instead, it may be to prevent the need to
"dumb down" the new versions that have to cope with the outdated unit while is within range.
But the larger issue is: What if the pilot ignores or doesn't notice the nudges, how long
should the unit operate with outdated firmware? One month? One year? 5 years?

You are counting on the pilot doing the right thing later instead of on time, and I don't see
any reason he won't continue to postpone the update; after all, "it seems to be working fine -
what's the rush"?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #58  
Old November 19th 20, 11:39 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,939
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

Dan Marotta wrote on 11/19/2020 2:13 PM:
On 11/19/20 11:21 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. **Isn't that like
buying a license to active the passenger side seat belt in a car?* Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on working after the
firmware "expires"?* (As long as the data packets are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated by law. Do you want to
go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an optional feature") is
like buying the "primo" optional interior for your new car, except you can do it anytime,
even years after the purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included
everything that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay for only
what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going to whine about the 10
minutes it takes me to read the update instructions and load it into the glider. The present
system seems like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in capability,
at no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we are required to "update" our
gliders every year with an inspection, to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight
review, to keep our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute
every 180 days - I think we should expect a pilot to also handle updating Flarm!


Eric,

A lot is made of such features as IGC recording.* But, since my glider happens to have an
engine, the IGC recording is useless unless I buy a license for it.* The firmware has all been
written and is installed and, with a few characters inserted during the "installation", it will
function.

Fortunately, I knew that going in and did not need an ENL license.* My ClearNav and ClearNav
vario each perform the engine noise recording function and at zero extra cost.* Now I suppose
ClearNav could disable the function, lower their price by $50 and then charge $50 to enable the
function but I think that would just **** people off.


My guess is they chose to license it for exactly the reason you state: most pilot will have
varios, loggers, or flight computers already doing the IGC logging. By disabling the Flarm IGC
logging and charging less, they expect to get more people to buy their unit. That seems like a
good deal - "you only pay for what you need".

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

  #59  
Old November 19th 20, 11:47 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andrzej Kobus
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 585
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

On Thursday, November 19, 2020 at 1:21:40 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/19/2020 9:31 AM:
On 11/19/2020 11:12 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/18/20 4:41 PM, Richard Pfiffner wrote:
According to Flarm the New Fusion transmits and receives on both A and B Flarm Antennas.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm



Richard
www.craggyaero.com


That looks to me like you can buy a license to activate the "B" antenna. Isn't that like
buying a license to active the passenger side seat belt in a car? Or the rear brakes?


Maybe if you pay extra they'll sell you the feature where it keeps on working after the
firmware "expires"? (As long as the data packets are still compatible.)

Dan: We have no choice about seat belts and brakes, which are mandated by law. Do you want to
go there with PowerFlarm? :^(

Dan: Buying a license for an optional feature (also known as "buying an optional feature") is
like buying the "primo" optional interior for your new car, except you can do it anytime, even
years after the purchase, unlike that fancy interior. Would you rather they included everything
that is now optional, and charged you for it, instead letting you pay for only what you need?


Moshe: They give me the updates FREE anytime I want one. I'm not going to whine about the 10
minutes it takes me to read the update instructions and load it into the glider. The present
system seems like a good compromise: all units are no more than 1 year behind in capability, at
no $ cost, and very little time and effort. As pilots, we are required to "update" our gliders
every year with an inspection, to "update" the pilot every two years with a flight review, to
keep our charts and database current yearly or less, to "update" our parachute every 180 days -
I think we should expect a pilot to also handle updating Flarm!
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1


Eric, your comparison is way out of place. We are talking here about buying a safety device to prevent collision and as a standard you are getting 60 maybe 70% protection because of the antenna placement, and you have to pay extra to actually get what the Flarm advertises the unit intends to do. This is total crap! Giving people a sense of security for the base price tells me that they care more about profits than safety. They should not be selling these features as extra, either they are needed or they are not.
  #60  
Old November 20th 20, 01:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Richard Pfiffner[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 319
Default PowerFlarm offers new Version, PowerFlarm Fusion Includes Manynewstandard Features!

With the new Fusion almost everything is included.

http://www.craggyaero.com/fusion.htm

Richard
www.craggyaero.com
 




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