THE PILOT WHO WOULDN'T FLY

Hold on a bit. Bravery is not a never-ending supply.

Agree, Walt. Bravery and, just as important, mental sharpness both are
exhaustible resources.

Look what happened to Guy Gibson - too many times to the well and ended up
killing his hapless "navigator" and himself. His "bravery" (or internal drive
to grapple with the enemy) was the primary reason both of these airmen died.

The top British nightfighter freely admitted he was shot down and captured
because he was mentally exhausted by too many operational sorties; he "spaced",
made a rookie mistake that nearly got him and his nav killed when they were
caught at low altitude and low airspeed by enemy fighters. (That same sort of
mistake got Duke and Driscoll shot down after the biggest day of their flying
careers, but for different reasons than the Brit nightfighter.)

Expecting men to face death daily over a period of years is not a way to find
out who is brave and who is not - its simply a way to expend them like
cartridges, or leave many of them as broken shadows for the rest of their
lives.

v/r
Gordon

IIRC, RAF let the pilots let off steam, eg get drunk and disorderly, clap,
women pregnant etc. As long as they keep flying over target. The moment
there is any hesitation, the pilots get busted on "LMF- Lack of Moral Fibre"
"WaltBJ" wrote in message
om...
Hold on a bit. Bravery is not a never-ending supply. The British found
this out a long long time ago. Our forces need to learn from them. I
read that in WW2 the Brits pulled the men out of the front lines after
about 30 days to decompress, get a hot shower, clean unis, decent
chow, and live normally - as normal as one could get wherever they
were. The US Army did not do this. If you get a chance watch 'The
Battle of San Pietro' - it covers the flak-happy syndrome, battle
fatigue, what ever you want to call it. If you read 'Night Fighter' by
C F Rawnsley you will read about him and 'the twitch' - too many times
to the well without a break. And the amount of 'bravery' a man has is
quite variable; some can go on and on and others need a break sooner
(famous bell curve). One of the unfortunate consequences of staying in
continuous combat too long is the degradation of judgement. FWIW I
remember hearing about a pilot who flipped out while on his 748th
combat mission in SEA. Anybody else remember that case, supposedly
around 1971, or was it just another rumor?
Now, for the really worthless SOBs, how about that BUFF pilot who was
willing to sit alert with multiple Hbombs but his conscience wouldn't
let him go over to SEA and drop dinky little HE bombs on people.
Walt BJ

In article , ArtKramr
writes
THE PILOT WHO WOULDN'T FLY


SNIP of interesting, if sad, story

I am not really qualified to comment on the case of a single flier who
seemed to be doing fine until he got dropped on his head; I can only
admire those who manage to soldier on until the end; and feel sympathy
for those who cannot. However, it is not as if all aircrew come off the
production line, fully quality controlled in all respects, and
guaranteed to function fully for as long as necessary.

In late 1945, a study was made into the psychological disorders in
flying personnel of the RAF during WWII. This highlighted the fact that
the selection process for aircrew could not filter out all of the
candidates who would one day have a problem. It is a maxim of
management that when a man fails in his job the manager must share in
the blame for having put him there in the first place. During the war,
medical officers and flying instructors were briefed to watch for
temperamental unsuitability - they didn't always get it right.

The findings of the 1945 report are quite interesting, and a brief
summary follows:

Year by year there were about 3000 cases of nervous breakdown and 300
cases of lack of confidence, which showed that the selection process was
at least fairly uniform in its application. One third of the cases of
neurosis occurred in Bomber Command, one third in Training Command, and
the rest were spread amongst Coastal Command, Transport Command, and
Fighter Command. One third broke down without experience of operational
flying, one third broke down with less than 100 hours operational
flying, and one third broke down with more than 100 hours operational
flying.

Types of nervous breakdown were chiefly anxiety and hysteria, both
accounting for over 90 percent of cases. Almost all cases (98.4
percent) had an underlying psychological rather than a physical basis.

Of the cases of psychological disorder, 22.5 percent returned to full
flying, 3.5 percent returned to limited flying, and 72 percent were
grounded. 1.9 percent had to be invalided out.

One conclusion drawn was that psychiatric assessment was not appropriate
at aircrew entry, but should be one medical factor to be taken into
account at the final selection board.

So, although the RAF necessarily used the LMF tag to keep the waverers
in the job, privately it had a good understanding of the statistical
probabilities of the number of aircrew that would break down in any
period of time, and they knew that it was ultimately an issue of proper
selection processes.

That was a distinct improvement on the WWI practice of the British army
of allowing kids in their mid-teens to lie about their age and enter the
war; and then shoot them when they (unsurprisingly) cracked. It is said
that the army simply could not afford to acknowledge the fact of shell-
shock - although the army of 1939-45 seemed to have managed things a bit
better and only used the firing squad when it seemed to be absolutely
necessary to stop things unravelling. The execution of Eddie Slovik in
January 1945 owed more to a view of practical necessities during the
Battle of the Bulge than to the 'shock' of finding a deserter; there
were an incredible number - Hitler executed 50,000 men for cowardice; a
price in manpower paid for not correctly choosing between the men who
should be holding muskets; and those who should be away from the front
line.

I guess we just cannot expect sympathy and an objective view of the
human condition to reign supreme during wartime. As ever; management is
at fault, but believes it cannot afford to admit it.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

"Dave Eadsforth" wrote in message
...
In article , ArtKramr
writes


That was a distinct improvement on the WWI practice of the British army
of allowing kids in their mid-teens to lie about their age and enter the
war; and then shoot them when they (unsurprisingly) cracked. It is said
that the army simply could not afford to acknowledge the fact of shell-
shock - although the army of 1939-45 seemed to have managed things a bit
better and only used the firing squad when it seemed to be absolutely
necessary to stop things unravelling. The execution of Eddie Slovik in
January 1945 owed more to a view of practical necessities during the
Battle of the Bulge than to the 'shock' of finding a deserter; there
were an incredible number - Hitler executed 50,000 men for cowardice; a
price in manpower paid for not correctly choosing between the men who
should be holding muskets; and those who should be away from the front
line.

I guess we just cannot expect sympathy and an objective view of the
human condition to reign supreme during wartime. As ever; management is
at fault, but believes it cannot afford to admit it.


I'm not sure I entirely agree.

As you have mentioned the RAF and British Army at least attempted
to address the issue in a more realistic and enlightened way. I recall
my father speaking about a number of men who simply cracked under
the pressure of constant fear in the line. It wasnt just a matter of courage
as at least one of them had been awarded the military medal.

One case he never forgot was when they were pinned down for
2 days by German mortars and machine guns just outside
Caen in 1944 when his mate who had been in the regiment since
1938 and served throughout France in 1940 , North Africa and
Italy had a breakdown. They had to physically restrain him or he'd
have bolted from the trench which would have been suicidal.

He rejoined the regiment in early 1945 after treatment and nobody
thought the worse of him, he was just another casualty of
the war. A more well known example is the late comedian
Spike Milligan who broke down in Italy in 1944 after
being shelled on a mountain side in Italy while acting
as a forward artillery observer.

I'm sure the US forces were equally enlightened by the way its just
that my only direct knowledge is related to the British armed forces.
I do recall the furore that resulted after Patton slapped a man
suffering from combat fatigue.

In WW1 that man would have been shot.

Keith

Subject: THE PILOT WHO WOULDN'T FLY
From: "Alfred Loo"
Date: 2/3/04 11:50 PM Pacific Standard Time

IRC, RAF let the pilots let off steam, eg get drunk and disorderly, clap,
women pregnant etc. As long as they keep flying over target. The moment
there is any hesitation, the pilots get busted on "LMF- Lack of Moral Fibre"

Yeah. War was hard.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In message , Krztalizer
writes

Hold on a bit. Bravery is not a never-ending supply.

Agree, Walt. Bravery and, just as important, mental sharpness both are
exhaustible resources.

Look what happened to Guy Gibson - too many times to the well and ended up
killing his hapless "navigator" and himself. His "bravery" (or internal drive
to grapple with the enemy) was the primary reason both of these airmen died.

At the time of the dams raid Gibson was so exhausted and run-down that
he had a large carbuncle on his cheek that made it painful to do up his
oxygen mask.

From what I have read (I have no experience of combat) many writers have
said that every man has a given deposit of courage and endurance. When
the withdrawals exceed the deposit then that's it.
I read of one excellent navigator who, on his first mission over enemy
territory, clung to a spar in terror all the way there and all the way
back. He was removed immediately, of course, but it seems impossible to
predict any individual's reaction to danger.
The poor sod whom Art described was taken too far, but it was
unpredictable.


The top British nightfighter freely admitted he was shot down and captured
because he was mentally exhausted by too many operational sorties; he "spaced",
made a rookie mistake that nearly got him and his nav killed when they were
caught at low altitude and low airspeed by enemy fighters. (That same sort of
mistake got Duke and Driscoll shot down after the biggest day of their flying
careers, but for different reasons than the Brit nightfighter.)

Expecting men to face death daily over a period of years is not a way to find
out who is brave and who is not - its simply a way to expend them like
cartridges, or leave many of them as broken shadows for the rest of their
lives.

Yes, I saw a paratroop sergeant break down in tears on television once,
after describing his experiences in NI. A paratroop sergeant! The
toughest of the tough.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell

Subject: THE PILOT WHO WOULDN'T FLY
From: "M. J. Powell"

Yes, I saw a paratroop sergeant break down in tears on television once,
after describing his experiences in NI. A paratroop sergeant! The
toughest of the tough.


It's not what you do on television that counts. It is what you do in combat
that counts. No Air Medals for TV appearances.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

(ArtKramr) wrote:
"M. J. Powell" wrote:

Yes, I saw a paratroop sergeant break down in tears on television once,
after describing his experiences in NI. A paratroop sergeant! The
toughest of the tough.

It's not what you do on television that counts. It is what you do in combat
that counts. No Air Medals for TV appearances.

Also, the true test of one's character is judged by what he does when
no one is looking. No Air Medals for Autocollimator appearances.

(WaltBJ) wrote:

[snipped for brevity]

FWIW I remember hearing about a pilot who flipped out while on his 748th
combat mission in SEA. Anybody else remember that case, supposedly
around 1971, or was it just another rumor?

After surviving nearly 750 missions (?!!) in combat who the hell
*wouldn't* be section eight material?

In message , ArtKramr
writes
Subject: THE PILOT WHO WOULDN'T FLY
From: "M. J. Powell"

Yes, I saw a paratroop sergeant break down in tears on television once,
after describing his experiences in NI. A paratroop sergeant! The
toughest of the tough.


It's not what you do on television that counts. It is what you do in combat
that counts. No Air Medals for TV appearances.

Sometimes Art, you show positive genius in misunderstanding people.

Mike
--
M.J.Powell