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New Butterfly Vario



 
 
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  #31  
Old February 6th 12, 11:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kirk.stant
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Posts: 1,260
Default New Butterfly Vario

On Feb 6, 3:38*pm, wrote:

There are no provisions for this in Winscore .
The RC position on these devices is that they are not permissible
under the long
established rules philosophy and they will not be allowed to be used,
The RC is working with
Butterfly to determine how best to remove this feature during
competition while not adding to
the work load of the scorer and other contest workers.
This has not yet been determined.
I will provide more information on this as it becomes available.
UH
RC Chair


Hank, what is the RC position on PDA/PNA software such as LK8000,
which has a functioning "turn-coordinator" page? Sure it says not to
use it for instrument flight, but it sure looks like it could be used
for a little cloud busting -or for getting down through a surprise
cloud layer, which is actually a nice feature and why it is included,
I'm sure.

Ditto some of the Garmin hand-held GPSs, which have a GPS-derived
"panel".

Of course, these are not gyro instruments, so cannot be legally used
for instrument flying, of course...

Kirk
66
  #32  
Old February 7th 12, 12:59 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 2,124
Default New Butterfly Vario

On Feb 6, 5:56*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
On Feb 6, 3:38*pm, wrote:

There are no provisions for this in Winscore .
The RC position on these devices is that they are not permissible
under the long
established rules philosophy and they will not be allowed to be used,
The RC is working with
Butterfly to determine how best to remove this feature during
competition while not adding to
the work load of the scorer and other contest workers.
This has not yet been determined.
I will provide more information on this as it becomes available.
UH
RC Chair


Hank, what is the RC position on PDA/PNA software such as LK8000,
which has a functioning "turn-coordinator" page? *Sure it says not to
use it for instrument flight, but it sure looks like it could be used
for a little cloud busting -or for getting down through a surprise
cloud layer, which is actually a nice feature and why it is included,
I'm sure.

Ditto some of the Garmin hand-held GPSs, which have a GPS-derived
"panel".

Of course, these are not gyro instruments, so cannot be legally used
for instrument flying, of course...

Kirk
66


Read 6.6.1 and draw your own conclusions based upon what you know
about these devices.
If a pilot is using and instrument- PDA's with software could fall
into this catagory, that permits flight without reference
to the horizon, he or she is not in conformity with our rules.
UH
  #33  
Old February 7th 12, 01:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default New Butterfly Vario

Exactly. My watch can allow me to cloudfly if I really want to. This is unenforcable and compromises safety over the chance that someone could cheat.. Safety MUST BE the prioriry. No? Not here I guess? Fly into a cloud and die? Thats what this rule says. Wow, thats a great idea!

The JS1 at reno had a mechanical turn and bank? Is that illegal? Must this guy remove it to fly in a regional? I find that silly.

This old, outdated and unenforcable rule should be removed today.

Who is going to enforce this rule? Each task day?

I am installing a turn and bank. I thumb my nose at this rule. Go ahead and throw me out of the contest. I honestly could care less.

That vario by the way is REALLY nice and I strongly encourage anyone interested to buy it regardless of this ridiculous rule which deliberately discourages safety, innovation and trust.
  #34  
Old February 7th 12, 06:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Herbert kilian
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Posts: 48
Default New Butterfly Vario



I am installing a turn and bank. *I thumb my nose at this rule. *Go ahead and throw me out of the contest. *I honestly could care less.

That vario by the way is REALLY nice and I strongly encourage anyone interested to buy it regardless of this ridiculous rule which deliberately discourages safety, innovation and trust.


Hey Sean, aren't you the kid from my 6th birthday party who didn't
like the rules when we played 'hide and seek', packed up the present
he had brought and left??? You haven't changed a bit...
  #35  
Old February 7th 12, 06:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Posts: 4,601
Default New Butterfly Vario

I was going to ask Sean if he's instrument rated and current. Is he
competent flying partial panel? Notwithstanding the above, is his glider
certified (in this country) for cloud flight? Is he going to pick up an
instrument clearance before needing to use this instrument?

I am qualified and have considerable experience flying partial panel in real
clouds, but I wouldn't so flagrantly voilate the rules as Sean seems to be
implying he's willing to do.

But wait! Wasn't it he who implied that it was *I* who am neither
intelligent nor safety conscious?

Can't have it both ways, Kid...


"Herbert kilian" wrote in message
...


I am installing a turn and bank. I thumb my nose at this rule. Go ahead
and throw me out of the contest. I honestly could care less.

That vario by the way is REALLY nice and I strongly encourage anyone
interested to buy it regardless of this ridiculous rule which deliberately
discourages safety, innovation and trust.


Hey Sean, aren't you the kid from my 6th birthday party who didn't
like the rules when we played 'hide and seek', packed up the present
he had brought and left??? You haven't changed a bit...

  #36  
Old February 7th 12, 11:17 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default New Butterfly Vario

I choose safety. Continue flailing...I enjoy it.

As for your panic fire about filing, etc. I laugh at you. I am laughing hysterically at you both.

Safety. Its that simple.
  #37  
Old February 7th 12, 11:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_5_]
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Posts: 1,965
Default New Butterfly Vario

A very strong safety argument can (and has for many years) been made
for keeping gaggles out of clouds.

  #38  
Old February 7th 12, 11:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Sean Fidler
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Posts: 1,005
Default New Butterfly Vario

Dan. I honestly feel sorry for you.

Intelligent pilots choose safety. FLARM is safer than nothing at all. You disagree, I shake my head at you. An AH is a life saver in the case of an emergency. Wave closing out below, etc. All of your ridiculous reason on that being illegal is just funny. Sad, but also funny.

So why have safety paint? Why does a cirrus have a chute? Why have a GPS? A Radio? Brilliant Dan...BRILLIANT. Fight the good fight!

I truly enjoy your effort to argue against safety. Please keep trying. We love it. It proves a valuable point to many. You still serve a purpose.

  #39  
Old February 8th 12, 12:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
glider12321
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Posts: 26
Default New Butterfly Vario

On Feb 6, 5:08*pm, Sean Fidler wrote:
Exactly. *My watch can allow me to cloudfly if I really want to. *This is unenforcable and compromises safety over the chance that someone could cheat. * Safety MUST BE the prioriry. *No? *Not here I guess? *Fly into a cloud and die? *Thats what this rule says. *Wow, thats a great idea!

The JS1 at reno had a mechanical turn and bank? *Is that illegal? *Must this guy remove it to fly in a regional? *I find that silly.

This old, outdated and unenforcable rule should be removed today.

Who is going to enforce this rule? *Each task day?

I am installing a turn and bank. *I thumb my nose at this rule. *Go ahead and throw me out of the contest. *I honestly could care less.

That vario by the way is REALLY nice and I strongly encourage anyone interested to buy it regardless of this ridiculous rule which deliberately discourages safety, innovation and trust.


As for flying with a turn-n-bank, I have never tried it for real. But,
for you condor flyers out there, try climbing into a cloud on your
computer and using the TNB to keep upright and circle. It is VERY
difficult without a lot of practice. Just get straight and try to fly
out of the cloud. Even on the computer without inner ear motion tricks
it's tough to do.
  #40  
Old February 8th 12, 12:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
T8
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Posts: 429
Default New Butterfly Vario

This thread has gone from strawman to tinman.

Whistle with me:

"...my head, I'd scratchin' while my thoughts, they'd be hatchin', if
I only...."

-Evan Ludeman / T8
 




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