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#241
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Jay Honeck wrote:
And they make a terrific product. They make at least four terrific products. But it's not by accident that they have focused their attention on North America, where semi-healthy general aviation still exists. I wasn't aware that they have "focused" on North America. They just try to sell their product worldwide, which of course includes North America. Stefan |
#242
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("Martin Hotze" wrote)
snip why do so many people here play soccer? because it is almost always on TV and almost everybody plays it (except me, I guess *g*). why do so few people in the US play soccer? why don't I understand the rules of baseball? probably because you have to be born into that. why do I find cricket boooooring? Marty Marty Marty The question that I can't answer is why DON'T more young people play soccer in the USA after leaving Jr High, High School or College. You'll see pickup games of basketball and softball (baseball with a bigger ball, slow pitching and beer drinking) and even mud football, but I have yet to see a group of neighborhood kids, big or little, out playing soccer up in the park. I've seen more little kids hitting golf balls than I've seen kids playing un-organized soccer. I've seen kids playing hockey, rollerblade-hockey, Frisbee golf, tennis, volleyball, swimming, biking and still no sight of any pickup games of soccer. This seems odd to me since (for over 20 years now) soccer has been pounded down the throats of little boys and girls throughout this country. It's their very first team sport for most of them - uniforms, playing card photos, button photos, team photos, fridge magnet photos, not to mention the hours and hours of VHS tape Mom and Dad have of their youth soccer games. All USA children MUST play organized community youth soccer. ..."soccer moms" term didn't come from nowhere. And yet, it doesn't seem like it's taking root here, even with 20 years of solid, solid effort. I'm 100% serious, I wonder why this is? Almost no kids over 14 play soccor here, unless they're on an organized team. Montblack I played High Shcool soccer my sophomore year, in the fall of 1975. I was the Goalie. Soccer was pretty new to Minnesota High School sports back then. Played football my next two years. g |
#243
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Jay Honeck wrote:
You would think after the train bombings in Spain, there would be as much -- or more -- security efforts expended on them? Most Europeans just reasonably understand that the probability to be hit by a meteor is higher. It was a cruel crime, but no paranoya on this side of the pond. How many people die each day on the road? Stefan |
#244
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"Newps" wrote in message ... Martin Hotze wrote: "Jay Honeck" wrote: It's the relative PROPORTION of pilots, aircraft, and airports that is out of whack in France. If aviation weren't dead in France, they should have the same PROPORTION of pilots, aircraft and airports as the US. they apparently have other priorities. They have faster trains, for example. How does this compare with the US? We have some fast trains too but we can't get them to stop so they have been mothballed for a while. The Boston to Washington high speed train is not running due to not being able to get brake parts. Anybody know where that train is made? |
#245
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"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:4UO9e.5395$r53.732@attbi_s21... Have you found one statistic that *PROVES* your point? (that aviation in France has been decimated by the French govt. aviation tax strategy?) Okay, let's re-phrase the question, since the statistics I posted obviously didn't register with you. Why is aviation in France statistically out of proportion with its population, as compared with the US, if NOT because of cost? Because the US is not France. They country is different. Geographically, demographically, and culturally. Therefore your notion of proportionality is bunkum. Your math is the equivalent of saying we have three apples plus 4 oranges so we have seven fruit. Just so happens that six strawberries and 1 pear also make seven fruit. It means **** all. |
#246
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Dave Stadt wrote:
"Newps" wrote in message ... We have some fast trains too but we can't get them to stop so they have been mothballed for a while. The Boston to Washington high speed train is not running due to not being able to get brake parts. Anybody know where that train is made? According to the news report on the brake rotors they come from the consortium of Canada's Bombardier and France's Alstom. |
#247
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On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:03:58 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote: snip Social engineering through taxation -- even well-meaning efforts -- almost always seems to have unforeseen consequences. You mean something like prohibition? It created a great market for the mobs back then. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#248
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"Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote in message news:ycT9e.2919$Xg.1811@okepread02... "Martin Hotze" wrote in message ... "Gig 601XL Builder" wr.giacona@coxDOTnet wrote: Your putting the effect before the cause. Could it be that "it simply doesn't appear on the radar of too many people" because it costs to damn much to do it thier? no. and nobody I talked to had the slightest idea about the costs. for sure they meant that it isn't the cheapest hobby, but compared to skiing (with all the associated costs) or golfing or other things it is still within reach (I made my private pilot license here when I was an office clerk for the social security administration with an average paycheck). #m -- http://www.hotze.priv.at/album/aviation/caution.jpg Well France has a long tradition of aviation even rivaling the US. What happened that knocked it of the radar if it wasn't cost. I know cost has hammered it pretty good here in the US. El Dorado AR a town of 25,000 in a county with about 50,000 has two airports ELD and F43. When I was growing up there were three FBOs that rented, chartered and all that fun stuff. When I got my PPL in 79-80 there were two and the one I used had three aircraft that stayed rented on the weekend and were pretty well used during the week. I think the other FBO had two. Then I went off to school for 4 years. When I returned they were all gone there have been a couple try to start up since then and they have all failed miserably. We had no real economic down turn here and we still have more than our fair share of Doctors, Lawyers and Oil Men. THe two things that killed it were the cost of AVGAS and Insurance. I can understand the insurance bit because you have a crap legal system and until the limit of 18 years was set on product liability the major aircraft makers had all but given up production. The only significant light aircraft manufacturers were in Europe, where liability laws are limited. Aviation in Europe is doing well and it is proved by the fact the first 2 LS aircraft certified in the US are of European origin where that area has been vibrant. In some respects the US is catching up with Europe in that respect. The other development is that of the diesel engine. The lower running costs promised are driving the developments. To complete the rebuttal of Jay's asinine remarks, the aviation scene in Europe is doing rather well. Why? Because there is a lot of innovation going on to suitable aircraft to operate in our environment and which the US is taking advantage of. IFR is not a big issue in Europe for the private pilot. So expensive IFR systems like WAAS and GPS enabled approaches are irrelevant. Its interesting that the much hailed Cirrus cannot fly IFR in much of European airspace and in the UK its just a VFR machine. By Cirrus's own admission its was not designed they say for Class A airspace. With Class A starting at 1500 ft its pretty useless. Excellent value for $450,000. |
#249
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"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:VAT9e.5840$r53.5583@attbi_s21... Decimated since when? Post a reference statistic and time as a starting point. Well, let's start with the fact that France's efforts at flight pre-date our own. Is 1903-ish far enough back for you? What taxes particularly are you referring to? Avgas taxes. The price of avgas in France (as the subject of this thread states) has now exceeded $7.50 per gallon, solely as a result of their very aggressive tax policies. Where does France get its processed petroleum products and what factors make the cost of avgas what it is? I presume that they get their petroleum from the same worldwide supply as the U.S. -- yet our avgas is "only" $3.30-ish per gallon. You just pulled thos whole argument out of your ass, dear, and while it might make an interesting thesis for a classroom debate, you should quit defending it unless you have a lot of facts to back up your assertions. As opposed to your well-thought out, carefully crafted counter-arguments? ;-) The facts are clear. It is your unwillingness to accept them that is puzzling. Why -- especially in an aviation forum -- are you (and Larry, Martin, and a couple of other folks) defending a foreign tax system that more than DOUBLES the price of aviation? This makes no sense to me. And why are people required to choose aviation as a pursuit based on the population of their country? They're not. But based on the population of France, there should be many times more pilots -- ESPECIALLY given their proud heritage of flight. I'm still waiting for an answer: If it's NOT the outrageous cost of avgas that has nearly killed general aviation in France, what is it? Why, in the land of Bleriot and Saint-Exupery, are there so (relatively) few men and women feeling the call to the skies, if NOT for price considerations? The French are more culturally mature and have perhaps outgrown such childish pursuits. |
#250
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"Montblack" writes:
I've seen kids playing hockey, rollerblade-hockey, Frisbee golf, tennis, volleyball, swimming, biking and still no sight of any pickup games of soccer. I can't remember the last time I saw kids ( 14 yo) playing pick up anything. Seriously. I assume they're exhausted from all the organized activities. Dan. -- "Ad Astra Per Alia Porci" PGP Key Id:0x507D93DF |
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