Hotellier connections

I never have problems with wiring the hotelliers in my Peg. All very visible
and easy to reach - unlike many gliders which require mirrors and feel.
Opening the brakes makes connecting the starboard brake hotellier a little
easier as it is the furthrest from the hatch and opening it moves it towards
the hatch.

During the summer I witnessed a Cirrus with sleeves launch with a
disconnected aileron despite having positive checks. Sleeves, pins or wires,
REALLY positive positive checks with a good amount of force applied to the
control surface/stick is a must.

Safe rigging!



"Mark James Boyd" wrote in message
news:414ead22$1@darkstar...
In article ,
Mark Zivley wrote:
Is your friend using safety wire or is he using the wire clips that look
kinda like a safety pin? I know that it's tough in some gliders no
matter what you're using, but the safety pins we used in our LS-1 were
pretty easy to put in and latch even though it was a totally blind
operation. Lots cheaper too! If you like you can even tether the pins
so if they fall you don't lose them.

Mike wrote:
I was watching my friend struggle with (AD required)safty wires for
Hotellier connectors on his recently purchased Pegasus. He said the
AD notes alternatives to the safty wires like the Wedekind sleeves.
Anyone know if these are retrofittable and where they can be obtained.
I'm sure this has been hashed out on RAS before but I'm new to the
group so apologize for the clutter. TIA:

We put Pegasus Hotellier conections together last weekend: what a pain!
Could they MAKE the access cover any smaller? Hotelliers suck.
I think they just asked me to help because I have
tiny fingers :PPP

--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd


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REALLY positive positive checks with a good amount of force applied to the
control surface/stick is a must.

I differ with you there...more important to fully deflect control surfaces
under light load throughout the range of the control movement. Have a look at
: http://www.mymedtrans.com/personal.htm

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam

Nice presentation. Lots of good advice.

If an incorrectly rigged connection is effectively 'jammed' together by
friction, isn't it only going to be detected during a PCC if the load
applied to the control surface is greater than the load required to overcome
the friction? Without adequate pressure being applied, I'm not sure how a
jammed control would be detected through a max deflection PCC except perhaps
by someone with very sharp eyes detecting variances/abnormalities in the
deflections.

Obviously any pressure applied has to be within reason so as not to damage
the aircraft.

On a seperate note, I have a written checklist for rigging my glider which
includes PCC and cross checking. However, I've never met anyone else who
does this which seems strange as we all get distracted by people/activities
during rigging. After rigging a few hundred times, it's could be all too
easy to think that you have just connected/checked something (before being
interrupted) when it was actually the day before.

Tony


"Jim Vincent" wrote in message
...
REALLY positive positive checks with a good amount of force applied to
the
control surface/stick is a must.

I differ with you there...more important to fully deflect control surfaces
under light load throughout the range of the control movement. Have a
look at
: http://www.mymedtrans.com/personal.htm

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.766 / Virus Database: 513 - Release Date: 17/09/2004

When the AD came out, my partner and I drilled holes in the latches and =
used what we call "Fender Clips," a pin that looks something like a =
Cotter pin except tempered and with a few undulations on one side. =
These hold well and are tied to the control rod end with monofilament =
fishing line. They have worked well over the years since. I tried once =
to convert to Wedekind sleeves but was told by the well-regarded repair =
station that did my annual that year that a proper sleeve was not =
available for my Grob built Standard Cirrus.

On PCCs, I favor an assistant to provide constant pressure against the =
control surface being checked, but not to attempt to prevent its =
movement. I want to see and hear the mechanism move throughout its full =
range in order to detect a hang-up or "funny noise." I do not rely on =
persons less familiar with my aircraft than I to know what may be out of =
order. It is actually quite easy for a checker to overpower any =
movement, especially in the Spoilers.

If an incorrectly rigged connection is effectively 'jammed' together by
friction, isn't it only going to be detected during a PCC if the load
applied to the control surface is greater than the load required to overcome
the friction?

Very few connections rely on friction. For the H connectors, I would expect
the socket to pop off the ball at at least one of the full deflection points.
After connecting them, try lifting the socket off the ball, maybe?

Be aware that control surfaces are not designed to take high load forces
applied at the surface...doing so might just break it.

I have a written checklist for rigging my glider which
includes PCC and cross checking. However, I've never met anyone else who
does

Pleased to meet you, my name is Jim Vincent. Now you have met someone;-) I
keep my CAC and post assembly checklist velcroed inside my cockpit jsut behind
the canopy. Ready for access every time I rig. I figure the more idiot proof
I make it, the less I have to worry about what I might have missed.

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam

I can attach and pin the L'Hotellier fittings in my LS-3a in 30
seconds. Easy to check to make sure they are connected properly.

Just takes a little practice.

Larry Goddard
"Zero One"


Ray Lovinggood wrote:

Are there types of L'Hotellier connectors that can't
use the sleeves?

A friend has an LS-4 with the sleeves (I guess they
are Wedekind) over his L'Hotellier's while my LS-1d
relies on safety pins in the 'wedges'.

It doesn't APPEAR that the sleeves can be used on the
type of L'Hotellier's in my glider, but I could be
wrong (a frequent occurance).

The safety pins are easy to attach, especially with
the adequately sized access hole in the turtle deck.
Could the safety pins come out? Possibly, but I don't
see how. Could the connections come loose even with
the safety pins properly in place? Possibly, but I
don't know how.

Is there any reason to retrofit the L'Hotellier's with
sleeves, if possible, rather than continuing to use
the safety pins?

Typically, I have the safety pins tied to the control
rods with dental floss. Sometimes, when removing a
wing, the safety pin snags on the fuselage and breaks
the dental floss. The pin drops into the fuselage
where I might or might not find it right away. Then,
I just go get a spare pin. To date, I have recovered
all 'lost' pins in the fuselage. Just a typical landing
or two of mine :-) shakes the pins out of their hiding
places so I can easily grab it through the turtle deck's
access hole.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
DG(LS)-1d
'W8'

At 14:12 20 September 2004, Chris Reed wrote:
I retrofitted Wedekind sleeves to an Astir CS (or more
accurately, got this
done as part of the annual Certificate of Airworthiness.
As I recall, the
cost was about USD15 per sleeve, with a couple of hours
labour (of an
expert) for fitting all four. There are about three
different types for
different kinds of hotelier, so quoting glider type,
model, year etc. is
essential.

Worth every penny, because (a) connecting took seconds
per Hotelier, and (b)
I knew that the security of the connection couldn't
work loose in flight,
unlike the R clips we used previously which *might*
(though never did) fall
out of the hole in the wedge. R clips are OK for (a),
once you get used to
fitting them by feel, but often your hands are greasy,
or you're just
clumsy, or life is against you. Plus, what happens
if you drop an R clip
(even if tied to wires they can slide out) - only 2%
of the pilots I know
would have a spare!

I own an Open Cirrus which, like the Pegase, has Hoteliers
behind the spar -
this has Wedekinds for those Hoteliers which is essential,
as they can only
be connected by feel. Our club Pegase has Wedekinds.

I think this is a no-brainer.

'Mike' wrote in message
. com...
I was watching my friend struggle with (AD required)safty
wires for
Hotellier connectors on his recently purchased Pegasus.
He said the
AD notes alternatives to the safty wires like the
Wedekind sleeves.
Anyone know if these are retrofittable and where they
can be obtained.
I'm sure this has been hashed out on RAS before but
I'm new to the
group so apologize for the clutter. TIA:

Mike

Larry Goddard wrote in message ...
I can attach and pin the L'Hotellier fittings in my LS-3a in 30
seconds. Easy to check to make sure they are connected properly.

Just takes a little practice.

Larry Goddard
"Zero One"


Ray Lovinggood wrote:

Are there types of L'Hotellier connectors that can't
use the sleeves?

A friend has an LS-4 with the sleeves (I guess they
are Wedekind) over his L'Hotellier's while my LS-1d
relies on safety pins in the 'wedges'.

It doesn't APPEAR that the sleeves can be used on the
type of L'Hotellier's in my glider, but I could be
wrong (a frequent occurance).

The safety pins are easy to attach, especially with
the adequately sized access hole in the turtle deck.
Could the safety pins come out? Possibly, but I don't
see how. Could the connections come loose even with
the safety pins properly in place? Possibly, but I
don't know how.

Is there any reason to retrofit the L'Hotellier's with
sleeves, if possible, rather than continuing to use
the safety pins?

Typically, I have the safety pins tied to the control
rods with dental floss. Sometimes, when removing a
wing, the safety pin snags on the fuselage and breaks
the dental floss. The pin drops into the fuselage
where I might or might not find it right away. Then,
I just go get a spare pin. To date, I have recovered
all 'lost' pins in the fuselage. Just a typical landing
or two of mine :-) shakes the pins out of their hiding
places so I can easily grab it through the turtle deck's
access hole.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
DG(LS)-1d
'W8'

At 14:12 20 September 2004, Chris Reed wrote:
I retrofitted Wedekind sleeves to an Astir CS (or more
accurately, got this
done as part of the annual Certificate of Airworthiness.
As I recall, the
cost was about USD15 per sleeve, with a couple of hours
labour (of an
expert) for fitting all four. There are about three
different types for
different kinds of hotelier, so quoting glider type,
model, year etc. is
essential.

Worth every penny, because (a) connecting took seconds
per Hotelier, and (b)
I knew that the security of the connection couldn't
work loose in flight,
unlike the R clips we used previously which *might*
(though never did) fall
out of the hole in the wedge. R clips are OK for (a),
once you get used to
fitting them by feel, but often your hands are greasy,
or you're just
clumsy, or life is against you. Plus, what happens
if you drop an R clip
(even if tied to wires they can slide out) - only 2%
of the pilots I know
would have a spare!

I own an Open Cirrus which, like the Pegase, has Hoteliers
behind the spar -
this has Wedekinds for those Hoteliers which is essential,
as they can only
be connected by feel. Our club Pegase has Wedekinds.

I think this is a no-brainer.

'Mike' wrote in message
. com...
I was watching my friend struggle with (AD required)safty
wires for
Hotellier connectors on his recently purchased Pegasus.
He said the
AD notes alternatives to the safty wires like the
Wedekind sleeves.
Anyone know if these are retrofittable and where they
can be obtained.
I'm sure this has been hashed out on RAS before but
I'm new to the
group so apologize for the clutter. TIA:

Mike






Hi,
In my DG200 I used safety pin type wich were easy to install and lock after
8-10 flight. I tied them with long fishing LEADER to prevent loosing them.
S6

I believe Jurgen quit selling them, I have not seen an ad in Soaring as =
he regularly had for some time. I know that Grob in Bluffton OH knows =
where to get them.

Another good site to check for this mod is Mr. Phoenix's:

http://www.jimphoenix.com/jimphoenix.../Wedekind.html

Jim has a unique combination of mechanical and technical skills
coupled with a good sense of humor that makes his site one of my all
time favorites.

-bob

I think the best way to do this isn't mirrors or safety pins
or PCCs or bits of string or feel or training or flashlights....

I prefer a big ass port (or two) that lets you look directly at
the entire connection from all sides.

If the designer made an ity-bity port, and you have to rely
on a PCC because you can't see the dang connection close up,
then that's just a crappy design. If the fuse is really
so flimsy the port has to be 5 inches wide instead of 8 or 9 inches,
and it can't be right near the connection, then the designer needs
to go to the drawing board.

The Pegasus elevator connection is out in the breeze, and real easy to
visually inspect. If anyone ever failed a PCC of that elevator
connection, I'd have to recommend they do the connection inspection
next time with eyes open, perhaps with their bifocals on, during
daylight hours.

I think the (over)emphasis on a PCC is bunk. The connection
inspection is the key. If I'm ever in a situation
where a PCC discovers something, I'll either not fly that glider
again (the design doesn't allow good enough direct connection
inspections) or I'll not fly ANY gliders (since I'm too stupid
or too hurried to look right at a connection and determine if it's
connected).

The exception to this is something like the bellcrank failure that
happened last year to a dive brake during a PCC. No connection
inspection is going to find that. But one wonders if the
tens of thousands of PCCs CAUSED the failure itself, by wearing
out the bellcrank faster...
--

------------+
Mark J. Boyd