Season Passes available from Soaring NV in Minden

Minden will always be a soaring destination even if I have to bring my own towplane up there. Seriously, there is absolutely no objection to a commercial op making money. I ran one myself and I priced such that I had an income. But to say paying $100 for a tow is reasonable and “no one complains�, is something of a self indictment. Maybe thats because at that rate of expense the only guys who are soaring are folks with money. Maybe thats why we see very very few young people entering the sport.
Take the Soar Minden price schema, a 3k tow is gonna be $90 minimum and thats if the tow pilot does’nt dottle getting back down. And add another $25 for someone to hook you up and run a wing. Now I am paying $115 minimum just to get up in the air. Anyone who tells me that is “reasonable� is someone who has plenty of expendable income, has’nt been in soaring for long, or is just an idiot. At these relative prices I will bringing a pawnee up to Minden this spring and charge 1/2 that and still make an acceptable profit.

I remember a time before there were any commercial operators at Minden, just a sometimes available Bellanca Scout, so we bought a C-180 and made tows available for the cost of gas plus a smidge just to help put Minden on the map and have company to fly with. I guess that level of comraderie and love of the pure sport does not exist anymore.

On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 8:21:02 AM UTC-8, wrote:
Minden will always be a soaring destination even if I have to bring my own towplane up there. Seriously, there is absolutely no objection to a commercial op making money. I ran one myself and I priced such that I had an income. But to say paying $100 for a tow is reasonable and “no one complains�, is something of a self indictment. Maybe thats because at that rate of expense the only guys who are soaring are folks with money. Maybe thats why we see very very few young people entering the sport.
Take the Soar Minden price schema, a 3k tow is gonna be $90 minimum and thats if the tow pilot does’nt dottle getting back down. And add another $25 for someone to hook you up and run a wing. Now I am paying $115 minimum just to get up in the air. Anyone who tells me that is “reasonable� is someone who has plenty of expendable income, has’nt been in soaring for long, or is just an idiot. At these relative prices I will bringing a pawnee up to Minden this spring and charge 1/2 that and still make an acceptable profit.

I remember a time before there were any commercial operators at Minden, just a sometimes available Bellanca Scout, so we bought a C-180 and made tows available for the cost of gas plus a smidge just to help put Minden on the map and have company to fly with. I guess that level of comraderie and love of the pure sport does not exist anymore.

To keep things in perspective: if you buy a lift ticket at the window in Squaw Valley or Northstar, a 1 day ticket is $179 this season. On the other hand a launch for my ASH26Mi costs about $2 in 100LL (but ignores the $50K capital expense). At Truckee, the minimum tow is to 2000 AGL by agreement with the tower, costs $68. Line staff is free but they do appreciate a tip now and then. Retrieves are $205/hr tach time. If Minden bills $7.40/min during a retrieve, that's $444/hr. My IP attorney charges $750/hr and he doesn't even own an airplane.

When I learned to fly in Calistoga, a tow to 1500 AGL was $2.50, and $1/1000 above. Even then, my brother and I used to do dual tows (two 1-26 behind a Supercub) to save money.

John Foster wrote on 12/12/2019 10:43 PM:
Reservations can be made via â—¦ Reservations can be
made via phone: 775-782-9595 â—¦ Reservations can be rescheduled with
sufficient advance notice • VIP Annual Tow Pass holders enjoy the following
benefits at no additional cost: â—¦ Unlimited tows â—¦ Unlimited oxygen fills â—¦
Unlimited land out retrievals â—¦ Line service â—¦ Wave Camp tickets We aim to
make your gliding experience as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and
encourage any feedback. We’re here to help you soar, and we’re happiest when
you’re soaring stress-free.
Wow! You guys are expensive. $50 before you even get off the ground.

The club I fly at charges $25 for the first 1000ft , and $1 for every 100ft
above that. So a 3000ft tow would cost you $45. You need to get your name on
the calendar for the day, but the "reservation" is free.

Clubs generally cost less in dollars and more in personal time. Soaring NV sounds
like a good deal for pilots that don't have lots of spare time, or live too far
from one to use a club. I use to be part owner of a club's towplane, and it was an
expensive, time-consuming effort to keep it ready, to dig up the tow pilots to fly
it, and have enough members to keep the tow costs reasonable.

You are fortunate to live where you can easily get low cost tows, but don't knock
the Minden operation without a better understanding of the situation there.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Does the tow reservation specify a time or just that the pilot wants to
fly that day?Â* I recall at Driggs having to make a reservation during a
30 minute block of the day and, of course, the best blocks were used by
their tourist ride operation.Â* But the reservation was free.

On 12/13/2019 4:02 AM, wrote:
I will be passing, and predict Air Sailing will be getting some new business.

As one of the pioneers of soaring out of Minden, it saddens me to see what has happened to one of the premier soaring sites of the world.

--
Dan, 5J

Heck, I'd /_move_/ to Minden for $1.50/500' tows and trade my Stemme for
a '31!

On 12/13/2019 6:22 AM, wrote:
Interesting way to describe the situation.
Not sure, but would/could/should these words describe the same same offer?

Welcome the Minden, an amazing place to soar!

We offer a tow special with a zero hookup charge and $1.50 per 500 feet, if you can handle the ground stuff yourself and get off tow near the airport. If you'd like a remote start, we can also tow for $7.40/minute tow start to tow wheel stop.

If you need help moving moving your glider, hooking up, or wing running, we can provide one of our trained line helpers for $25. He'll also help with landing.

To better coordinate your tow, we run with a reservation system. Since it costs money to move the tow plane, we charge an additional $25 if you reserve and don't tow. Just let us know what you need and we can adjust given a reasonable notice.

If you fly here a lot, ask about our VIP/Christmas present plan...

--
Dan, 5J

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 7:30:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
https://soaringnv.com/

You can pay for tows on a per-tow basis, which will be billed on a per-minute basis, or you can purchase a VIP Season Tow Pass. Here are the details for both options:
Paying on a Per-Tow Basis
• Glider pilots are responsible for having their glider at the staging area, and for the hook-up and launch of their glider, unless line help is requested (see below). • A tow reservation is required ◦ A reservations will cost $25 ▪ Reservation is non-refundable ▪ Reservation cost DOES count toward the final cost of the tow ◦ Reservations can be made via e-mail: ◦ Reservations can be made via phone: 775-782-9595 ◦ Reservations can be rescheduled with sufficient advance notice • Line help can be requested, for an additional cost of $25. ◦ Please specify if you do or don’t want line help when you make your tow reservation. ◦ Line help covers transport of glider to the staging area for launch and from the staging area upon return, hook up, launch, and other staging activities. • Tows will be billed at a cost of $7.40 per minute ◦ Time starts when the tow plane and glider start rolling. ◦ Time stops as soon as the tow plane touch down for landing.
VIP Annual Tow Pass
• The VIP Annual Tow Pass is $4200 for the entire year. ◦ The pass can be purchased at any point during the year. ◦ If the pass is purchased in advance, during the months of November and December, for the coming year, the price will be discounted to $3750. • A tow reservation is required ◦ Season pass holders DO NOT pay a reservation fee
◦ Reservations can be made via e-mail: ◦ Reservations can be made via phone: 775-782-9595 ◦ Reservations can be rescheduled with sufficient advance notice • VIP Annual Tow Pass holders enjoy the following benefits at no additional cost: ◦ Unlimited tows ◦ Unlimited oxygen fills ◦ Unlimited land out retrievals ◦ Line service ◦ Wave Camp tickets
We aim to make your gliding experience as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and encourage any feedback. We’re here to help you soar, and we’re happiest when you’re soaring stress-free.

We must be doing something wrong, our tows are 35 bucks to 2000, no reservation needed. Annual dues 360 bucks, not reservation fee, free help in assembly, beverages are usually free, including beer at the end of the day. No charge for fighter pilot special hot dogs on Saturday and Sunday. Assembled glider in hangar 125 bucks a month, with no charge for outdoor trailer parking. No 15 hour Wonders needed or wanted. Treasure Coast Soaring Club, Vero Beach, Florida. Bob

Bob Youngblood wrote on 12/13/2019 12:57 PM:

We aim to make your gliding experience as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and encourage any feedback. We’re here to help you soar, and we’re happiest when you’re soaring stress-free.

We must be doing something wrong, our tows are 35 bucks to 2000, no reservation needed. Annual dues 360 bucks, not reservation fee, free help in assembly, beverages are usually free, including beer at the end of the day. No charge for fighter pilot special hot dogs on Saturday and Sunday. Assembled glider in hangar 125 bucks a month, with no charge for outdoor trailer parking. No 15 hour Wonders needed or wanted. Treasure Coast Soaring Club, Vero Beach, Florida. Bob

Are members required to do any work, or can they just show up, fly, eat, drink and
go home? How about week day tows - available?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 7:30:14 PM UTC-5, wrote:
https://soaringnv.com/

You can pay for tows on a per-tow basis, which will be billed on a per-minute basis, or you can purchase a VIP Season Tow Pass. Here are the details for both options:
Paying on a Per-Tow Basis
• Glider pilots are responsible for having their glider at the staging area, and for the hook-up and launch of their glider, unless line help is requested (see below). • A tow reservation is required ◦ A reservations will cost $25 ▪ Reservation is non-refundable ▪ Reservation cost DOES count toward the final cost of the tow ◦ Reservations can be made via e-mail: ◦ Reservations can be made via phone: 775-782-9595 ◦ Reservations can be rescheduled with sufficient advance notice • Line help can be requested, for an additional cost of $25. ◦ Please specify if you do or don’t want line help when you make your tow reservation. ◦ Line help covers transport of glider to the staging area for launch and from the staging area upon return, hook up, launch, and other staging activities. • Tows will be billed at a cost of $7.40 per minute ◦ Time starts when the tow plane and glider start rolling. ◦ Time stops as soon as the tow plane touch down for landing.
VIP Annual Tow Pass
• The VIP Annual Tow Pass is $4200 for the entire year. ◦ The pass can be purchased at any point during the year. ◦ If the pass is purchased in advance, during the months of November and December, for the coming year, the price will be discounted to $3750. • A tow reservation is required ◦ Season pass holders DO NOT pay a reservation fee
◦ Reservations can be made via e-mail: ◦ Reservations can be made via phone: 775-782-9595 ◦ Reservations can be rescheduled with sufficient advance notice • VIP Annual Tow Pass holders enjoy the following benefits at no additional cost: ◦ Unlimited tows ◦ Unlimited oxygen fills ◦ Unlimited land out retrievals ◦ Line service ◦ Wave Camp tickets
We aim to make your gliding experience as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and encourage any feedback. We’re here to help you soar, and we’re happiest when you’re soaring stress-free.

I would say this is very nice service, especially for folks who go to Nevada from far and away and do not have ground crew. I would be very happy with such service. I can get towed to the flightline, get hooked up and towed for $115. How much hiring a crew cost? Much more, anyway. I would be glad to use the service.

I am not associated with Soaring NV other than as a customer. My post was meant to inform pilots who may be coming to Minden to fly next season, or move here. Last year Soaring NV only had one towplane resulting in significant launch delays. Next season they will have 3 towplanes. I don't know who Uneekc is but local pilots would welcome your towplane too if you are serious.
I have been considering a JS2 SL, but I will purchase the season pass, fly twice as much, get free aero retrieves and more, for 10 years at much less than the price of a self launcher engine. But SL's are great too!
Thanks to all of the folks who posted a positive message. Merry Christmas to all!
Jim Lee

On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 6:20:07 PM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Bob Youngblood wrote on 12/13/2019 12:57 PM:

We aim to make your gliding experience as smooth and enjoyable as possible, and encourage any feedback. We’re here to help you soar, and we’re happiest when you’re soaring stress-free.

We must be doing something wrong, our tows are 35 bucks to 2000, no reservation needed. Annual dues 360 bucks, not reservation fee, free help in assembly, beverages are usually free, including beer at the end of the day. No charge for fighter pilot special hot dogs on Saturday and Sunday. Assembled glider in hangar 125 bucks a month, with no charge for outdoor trailer parking. No 15 hour Wonders needed or wanted. Treasure Coast Soaring Club, Vero Beach, Florida. Bob

Are members required to do any work, or can they just show up, fly, eat, drink and
go home? How about week day tows - available?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Just eat drink, and enjoy. Bring beer for the cooler if you like.