oct 2 report to members

Reading this report left me with some questions and prompts some editorial comments;
questions:
1. it seems that perhaps the financial misrepresentations could have been comprised of two distinct parts. Actual misappropriation of ssa funds by someone and covered up. AND perhaps spending beyond society means. Misappropriation is covered, hopefully , by insurance. Overspending is not. The question I have is did the SSA overspend its resources while at the same time get ripped off? If it is a 100% rip off of funds, then the insurance company should make good our loss. If there is a significant element of simple fiscal irresponsibility, then the ssa is out of luck in terms of recovering the shortfall in cash.

2. No mention was made of any discussion of possible conflict of interest among the board. No mention was made of any discussion by the board of their potential personal liability, either as ssa board or as foundation board members. Was this topic discussed? I find it difficult to believe that no one brought it up.

3. No mention was made of services to be curtailed or the terms of the loan from the foundation. If they don't have a plan by now, we are in trouble big time. What services will be curtailed?

comments:
1. It seems as if Chip is back in the fold after going public with his concerns re board actions. We have yet to be told of his complaints to the board and what actions they took to satisfy his concerns. This seems to me to be of legitimate concern to members.

2. The resignation of the ED basically leaves SSA WITHOUT an effective lobbyist for our interests. Since this is one of the main reasons for the existence of the society, I would assume that some sort of outsourcing of this function will be undertaken.It would be nice for the membership to be informed of how this function is to be handled if at all during the repayment period and the restructuring period.

3. The issue of the magazine was not addressed. This seems to me to be an immediate item ripe for drastic cutback. It is the single largest annual expense. Was the option of going all electronic discussed??? A 12 month halt in print publication would probably save almost enough to pay the loan back.

4. The restructuring task force has a large job in front of it if it is to succeed. I would hope that a timeline is being formulated and that the task is structured such that the members are presented with a series of choices along the way. So far, the excom and rest of the board have not presented members with any choices. They have taken the position that they were elected to run the show and that job extends to the task of total restructuring.
I disagree. They were elected to do a job and they failed miserably at the task of oversight. They were elected to oversee an smooth running organization and they did not.
They were NOT elected to radically restructure the organization. This is NOT business as usual. I have no confidence in them at this point. The chair wrote in her second note to members "Once the Society emerges from this awful situation, our intent is to tender resignations in respect of our leadership positions, hoping that new, qualified individuals will assume these roles."

I would suggest that the current excom borrow the immediately needed funds from the BANK rather than digging their personal hole any deeper and then follow through on this promise to resign immediately. The immediate fires will have been put out and fresh faces should be enlisted to run the show during this next year.
5bg

5-BG wrote: -- insert drivel here --

When and if you ever choose to identify yourself then your thoughts and
comments might have some merit for consideration ...
Until then ... ***POOF***

5-BG wrote:
Reading this report left me with some questions and prompts some editorial comments;
questions:
1. it seems that...

2. I find it difficult to believe...

3. If they don't have a plan by now...

comments:
1. It seems as if...

2. I would assume that...

3. This seems to me to be ...

4. I would hope that...

I disagree. They were elected to do...
They were NOT elected to...

hoping that new, qualified individuals will assume these roles."

I would suggest that...
5bg

Hey there 5BG,

Well, It looks like there will be some openings coming up
shortly in the SSA executive committee. Since you seem
to have all the insight and knowledge of what to do, maybe you
should run for a position.

You could even offer your services as Executive Director.

I don't think you will though, because you don't even have the
stones to sign your name to your ranting post.

You are like the heckler in the back of the room making snide and
sniping comments hiding in the shadows.

Come on, since you seem to be so full of editorial comments,
step up to the plate and offer your services to the SSA.

Otherwise, your anonymous comments are nothing more than
a fart in the wind.

You can easily find me in the SSA member directory.

Willie Geiselmann

Everyone and everything in the SSA should, according to you, be open
and transparent, yet you hide behind your nickname of 5-BG. You have
been asked several times to speak up and tell us who you are. That is
the one area of conversation that you avoid. Seems to be a double
standard here, don't you think? Are you scared to let us know who you
are? Are you ashamed of who you are? What the hell is with you?
Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!!

Come on chicken speak up or shut up!

Warmest Regards,

Frank Reid

Frank:
"Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!"

No one can accuse the soaring community of not having any manners,
class or character.

It's amazing to watch this SSA fiasco take place. It's the classic
train wreck. What confuses me is why ANY SSA member would have an
ounce of faith in the management or board of the SSA after what has
transpired.

The membership has been abused and robbed and the reaction by many is,
"We have to rearrange the deck chairs".

I hope that the IRS and the State of New Mexico levies the MAXIMUM
penalty against the SSA since this is what the organization deserves.
The SSA broke the rules and should suffer the consequences.

But that's the rub, I guess responsibility is not in fashion these
days.


Frank Reid wrote:
Everyone and everything in the SSA should, according to you, be open
and transparent, yet you hide behind your nickname of 5-BG. You have
been asked several times to speak up and tell us who you are. That is
the one area of conversation that you avoid. Seems to be a double
standard here, don't you think? Are you scared to let us know who you
are? Are you ashamed of who you are? What the hell is with you?
Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!!

Come on chicken speak up or shut up!

Warmest Regards,

Frank Reid

Dear 5-BG,
Absent identifying youself, your credibility is absent as well.
Though you raise some possibly valid points, your audience grows smaller by the hour.
Thus, as so well said by another poster on this thread,
POOF!!!!
Signed, for all the world to see, Pete Reinhart, Life Member
"5-BG" 5-bghatesspam @ fake.com wrote in message news Reading this report left me with some questions and prompts some editorial comments;
questions:
1. it seems that perhaps the financial misrepresentations could have been comprised of two distinct parts. Actual misappropriation of ssa funds by someone and covered up. AND perhaps spending beyond society means. Misappropriation is covered, hopefully , by insurance. Overspending is not. The question I have is did the SSA overspend its resources while at the same time get ripped off? If it is a 100% rip off of funds, then the insurance company should make good our loss. If there is a significant element of simple fiscal irresponsibility, then the ssa is out of luck in terms of recovering the shortfall in cash.

2. No mention was made of any discussion of possible conflict of interest among the board. No mention was made of any discussion by the board of their potential personal liability, either as ssa board or as foundation board members. Was this topic discussed? I find it difficult to believe that no one brought it up.

3. No mention was made of services to be curtailed or the terms of the loan from the foundation. If they don't have a plan by now, we are in trouble big time. What services will be curtailed?

comments:
1. It seems as if Chip is back in the fold after going public with his concerns re board actions. We have yet to be told of his complaints to the board and what actions they took to satisfy his concerns. This seems to me to be of legitimate concern to members.

2. The resignation of the ED basically leaves SSA WITHOUT an effective lobbyist for our interests. Since this is one of the main reasons for the existence of the society, I would assume that some sort of outsourcing of this function will be undertaken.It would be nice for the membership to be informed of how this function is to be handled if at all during the repayment period and the restructuring period.

3. The issue of the magazine was not addressed. This seems to me to be an immediate item ripe for drastic cutback. It is the single largest annual expense. Was the option of going all electronic discussed??? A 12 month halt in print publication would probably save almost enough to pay the loan back.

4. The restructuring task force has a large job in front of it if it is to succeed. I would hope that a timeline is being formulated and that the task is structured such that the members are presented with a series of choices along the way. So far, the excom and rest of the board have not presented members with any choices. They have taken the position that they were elected to run the show and that job extends to the task of total restructuring.
I disagree. They were elected to do a job and they failed miserably at the task of oversight. They were elected to oversee an smooth running organization and they did not.
They were NOT elected to radically restructure the organization. This is NOT business as usual. I have no confidence in them at this point. The chair wrote in her second note to members "Once the Society emerges from this awful situation, our intent is to tender resignations in respect of our leadership positions, hoping that new, qualified individuals will assume these roles."

I would suggest that the current excom borrow the immediately needed funds from the BANK rather than digging their personal hole any deeper and then follow through on this promise to resign immediately. The immediate fires will have been put out and fresh faces should be enlisted to run the show during this next year.
5bg

Pete,

I sorry I did not get your last name. Are you another like 5BG who is
too gutless to sign your posts? Maybe you and 5BG can form a club of
chicken****, gutless, cowards who mouth off but don't even have the
balls to identify themselves.

Funny you shoud mention responsibility and accountability and yet you
will not even take responsibility for your own post. You hide behind
Pete... Surely your last name is not "...". That would really be a
stupid last name, huh?

Warmest Regards Coward,

Frank Reid


wrote:
Frank:
"Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!"

No one can accuse the soaring community of not having any manners,
class or character.

It's amazing to watch this SSA fiasco take place. It's the classic
train wreck. What confuses me is why ANY SSA member would have an
ounce of faith in the management or board of the SSA after what has
transpired.

The membership has been abused and robbed and the reaction by many is,
"We have to rearrange the deck chairs".

I hope that the IRS and the State of New Mexico levies the MAXIMUM
penalty against the SSA since this is what the organization deserves.
The SSA broke the rules and should suffer the consequences.

But that's the rub, I guess responsibility is not in fashion these
days.


Frank Reid wrote:
Everyone and everything in the SSA should, according to you, be open
and transparent, yet you hide behind your nickname of 5-BG. You have
been asked several times to speak up and tell us who you are. That is
the one area of conversation that you avoid. Seems to be a double
standard here, don't you think? Are you scared to let us know who you
are? Are you ashamed of who you are? What the hell is with you?
Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!!

Come on chicken speak up or shut up!

Warmest Regards,

Frank Reid

peter you wrote" reaction by many is,
"We have to rearrange the deck chairs".
Another reaction, mainly by life members and insiders who presided over this mess is to attack people who raise valid points, not on the substance of their message but on the trivial issue of whether or not they choose to identify themselves in a public forum. I choose not to place my name on posts for what I consider to be personal and very valid reasons. My signature should have very little to do with the points I raise. I am a nobody in the soaring community. While some may recognize my name from outside the soaring community arena, my identity has no import within the soaring community. I am not a contest pilot. I have not been active in any ssa governance. I am a simple member and have been to many years. one of the faceless many who feel abused and ignored by the high profile "big names" who ran this organization for their personal aggrandizement and ultimately into the ground.
The soaring society inside establishment has rallied to the defense of the status quo and seeks to deflect the discussion to that of who is posting what.
The issues are real. The train wreck is getting worse. The hole is getting deeper. The general membership is, imho, getting more disenfranchised by the day. Accountability is being shifted. responsibility diffused. Committees are being formed to study the problem.
information is being withheld and then only brought out a bit at a time. Case in point.. I just read the recently posted excom minutes which reveal that a donation of 84,000 was diverted and most of it never made it to fidelity. This info came to light just a week or so after the excom and treasurer gave assurances that all foundation money was accounted for. 84 grand is a sizeable chunk. how could they miss this???
when you cannot dispute the message with logic and facts, attack the messenger on a personal level.
I read in the bylaws "
ARTICLE VI - SUSPENSION, EXPULSION, ETC.

SECTION 1 - Any member may be dropped from the roll of membership for nonpayment of dues; and any member whose activities are deemed hostile to the objectives or injurious to the purpose of the Society, or who violates its bylaws or established rules, may be removed from office, suspended or expelled from the Society by vote of the Board of Directors. "

I guess that means me if the board decides that it doesn't like criticism.. I am openly hostile to the objectives of the current board which I perceive to be self preservation and limiting personal responsibility. .

BUT WHO THROWS OUT THE BOARD if it knowingly and willfully violates the bylaws???

SECTION 2 - Annually, after the close of the fiscal year, the books and accounts shall be audited by an independent accounting firm and the findings and opinions of the firm published and distributed to the Directors, and to others requesting same.



THE BOARD CLEARLY VIOLATED THE BYLAWS.. no ands ifs or buts.. They are clearly in conflict of interest as section one specifies that the board has the power to throw out anyone who violates the bylaws.. There were no provisions for members to institute a recall process..

so the ssa is stuck with a board that is making decisions for the future that has the power to expel any with a hostile attitude but that also has the sole power to judge itself. The LEGITIMACY of this board and excom is seriously in question.



THIS SUCKS..

So I suggest to those of you who are life members, big names, directors, and insiders, that you consider the points raised by the faceless masses that you have for so long considered a necessary evil to be tolerated because they pay dues to support your self aggrandizing efforts and pet projects. . I challenge you right now to address my conclusion that the current board should be tossed out on the basis of the bylaws.

By the way, I also read in recent minutes that the excom is going to change the bylaws to eliminate the requirement for an annual audit.. NOW THIS MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE given recent events.. but then, they are vested with the power ( sole) to change bylaws. too bad they cannot make change retroactive..

this trainwreck is getting worse by the day. a measure of just how much worse is the degree to which insiders try to deflect meaningful questions, opinions and analysis by attacking a nobody on a personal basis because he exercises his right not to divulge his name in a public forum.



Perhaps you should google on SLAPP SUIT for a reasonable explanation of the desire to remain faceless.

so to all you big names, directors,life members and other insiders who don't want to deal with the train wreck, SCREW YOU VERY MUCH

A faceless member (5bg)





A




wrote in message oups.com...
Frank:
"Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!"

No one can accuse the soaring community of not having any manners,
class or character.

It's amazing to watch this SSA fiasco take place. It's the classic
train wreck. What confuses me is why ANY SSA member would have an
ounce of faith in the management or board of the SSA after what has
transpired.

The membership has been abused and robbed and the reaction by many is,
"We have to rearrange the deck chairs".

I hope that the IRS and the State of New Mexico levies the MAXIMUM
penalty against the SSA since this is what the organization deserves.
The SSA broke the rules and should suffer the consequences.

But that's the rub, I guess responsibility is not in fashion these
days.


Frank Reid wrote:
Everyone and everything in the SSA should, according to you, be open
and transparent, yet you hide behind your nickname of 5-BG. You have
been asked several times to speak up and tell us who you are. That is
the one area of conversation that you avoid. Seems to be a double
standard here, don't you think? Are you scared to let us know who you
are? Are you ashamed of who you are? What the hell is with you?
Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!!

Come on chicken speak up or shut up!

Warmest Regards,

Frank Reid

Frank:

"Maybe you and 5BG can form a club of
chicken****, gutless, cowards who mouth off but don't even have the
balls to identify themselves."

This is the internet, Frank, so everyone is anonymous. There's no way
to confirm anyone's ID. In case you haven't noticed, you aren't a
tough guy or the playground bully just because you act the part on the
internet.

You certainly represent what's wrong with message boards, the SSA and
the soaring community.

Instead of reacting to the outrageous SSA email to the membership sent
last night, you go around bashing people who are outraged with the SSA!

Frank, do you have half a BRAIN?!

You attack people who disagree with you such as 5BG even when he
offered a reasoned argument for his point of view.

If you can't take the heat, Frank, get out of the kitchen.

Signed,
You_hurt_my_feelins


Frank Reid wrote:
Pete,

I sorry I did not get your last name. Are you another like 5BG who is
too gutless to sign your posts?
Funny you shoud mention responsibility and accountability and yet you
will not even take responsibility for your own post. You hide behind
Pete... Surely your last name is not "...". That would really be a
stupid last name, huh?

Warmest Regards Coward,

Frank Reid


wrote:
Frank:
"Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!"

No one can accuse the soaring community of not having any manners,
class or character.

It's amazing to watch this SSA fiasco take place. It's the classic
train wreck. What confuses me is why ANY SSA member would have an
ounce of faith in the management or board of the SSA after what has
transpired.

The membership has been abused and robbed and the reaction by many is,
"We have to rearrange the deck chairs".

I hope that the IRS and the State of New Mexico levies the MAXIMUM
penalty against the SSA since this is what the organization deserves.
The SSA broke the rules and should suffer the consequences.

But that's the rub, I guess responsibility is not in fashion these
days.


Frank Reid wrote:
Everyone and everything in the SSA should, according to you, be open
and transparent, yet you hide behind your nickname of 5-BG. You have
been asked several times to speak up and tell us who you are. That is
the one area of conversation that you avoid. Seems to be a double
standard here, don't you think? Are you scared to let us know who you
are? Are you ashamed of who you are? What the hell is with you?
Identify yourself or shut the F#*# up!!

Come on chicken speak up or shut up!

Warmest Regards,

Frank Reid

Children, SHhhhhh!!!! The solution is to join forces with the well
established and solid hang gliding and paragliding community to form
the United States Soaring Association. The hang glider guys would beat
the crap out of all you old duffs and straighten this mess out.
Waddaya think of that?