Racing airspace "violation" question

On Sep 8, 12:36*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:
On Sep 8, 10:07*am, John Cochrane
wrote:



On Sep 8, 10:50*am, LOV2AV8 wrote:

As long as we're discussing a rules change and not a score change for
the day. *Many other contestants aborted at the first turn point
rather than the second turn point because of the Class C airspace
conflict with getting home.

Randy

What day of what contest was this? What was the issue with going
around class C? How was it impossible to continue the course,
impossible to go around class C, but easy to go over? I'm not being
hostile, I'd just like to go look at the task and results. Stated in
the abstract it all seems so unlikely, so it would be good to know the
practical circumstance.

John Cochrane

This was the first day of the Southwest Soaring Championships flown
from Tucson Soaring Club. *The CD set a long and challenging task that
proved too long, mostly because of a late start. *Only one contestant
completed the task, three landed out and the rest (including me)
abandoned.

We routinely fly over Tucson Class C as it's often the quickest and
safest way home from tiger country.

Mike

I'm still trying to get a sense of whether "this was a real problem"
or whether this is some hypothetical question.

The SSA contest report says this was an area task from El Tiro to
Amado, southwest of Tucson, with a 25 mile circle around Amado. The
direct courseline to Amado doesn't intersect the Tucson class C,
though it does come close; the Tucson class C is east of courseline.
Looking at the chart, I would have flown the line of high ground even
further west of courseline, ending up at Keystone peak or thereabouts.
My options would have been the line of airports, Ruby Star, Flying
Diamond, Ryan, Taylor, all again a bit west of courseline and heading
right back to El Tiro and the second turnpoint. I just don't see how
anyone could have gotten stuck behind the Tucson class C. And it looks
like the CD did a good job of setting a course that really didn't
cause a problem.

So, tell the story. Where were you guys that you really felt this was
the only safe option? How did you get there? Or is this all
hypothetical?

There is a lot of complaining around here about rules being too
complicated. Carving out an exception for class C overflights in
abandoned tasks is certainly going to be complicated. So it matters
whether this is a real problem, or just the beginning of winter what-
ifs.

John Cochrane

On Sep 8, 5:45*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Sep 8, 12:36*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:





On Sep 8, 10:07*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:50*am, LOV2AV8 wrote:

As long as we're discussing a rules change and not a score change for
the day. *Many other contestants aborted at the first turn point
rather than the second turn point because of the Class C airspace
conflict with getting home.

Randy

What day of what contest was this? What was the issue with going
around class C? How was it impossible to continue the course,
impossible to go around class C, but easy to go over? I'm not being
hostile, I'd just like to go look at the task and results. Stated in
the abstract it all seems so unlikely, so it would be good to know the
practical circumstance.

John Cochrane

This was the first day of the Southwest Soaring Championships flown
from Tucson Soaring Club. *The CD set a long and challenging task that
proved too long, mostly because of a late start. *Only one contestant
completed the task, three landed out and the rest (including me)
abandoned.

We routinely fly over Tucson Class C as it's often the quickest and
safest way home from tiger country.

Mike

I'm still trying to get a sense of whether "this was a real problem"
or whether this is some hypothetical question.

The SSA contest report says this was an area task from El Tiro to
Amado, southwest of Tucson, with a 25 mile circle around Amado. The
direct courseline to Amado doesn't intersect the Tucson class C,
though it does come close; the Tucson class C is east of courseline.
Looking at the chart, I would have flown the line of high ground even
further west of courseline, ending up at Keystone peak or thereabouts.
My options would have been the line of airports, Ruby Star, Flying
Diamond, Ryan, Taylor, all again a bit west of courseline and heading
right back to El Tiro and the second turnpoint. I just don't see how
anyone could have gotten stuck behind the Tucson class C. And it looks
like the CD did *a good job of setting a course that really didn't
cause a problem.

So, tell the story. Where were you guys that you really felt this was
the only safe option? How did you get there? Or is this all
hypothetical?

There is a lot of complaining around here about rules being too
complicated. Carving out an exception for class C overflights in
abandoned tasks is certainly going to be complicated. So it matters
whether this is a real problem, or just the beginning of winter what-
ifs.

John Cochrane

John,

I think you've mistaken the Southwest Soaring Championships (a non-
sanctioned local contest) with the Region 9 that was also held at El
Tiro. The task in question was:

ID Name Distance (Miles) Radius
106 106 Waterman 0.00 5.0
62 062 MtWshngt 77.13
12 012 Benson 126.93
13 013 Biospher 176.85
1 001 EL TIRO 209.27 1.0

I have a few recollections of making long final glides to El Tiro from
the east. Given the distances involved a long, flat glide would
occasionally get you close to the top of the Class C and in that
instance going around could run you out of glide distance.
Disclaimer: My recollection is decades old and based on the old ARSA
configuration at Tucson IIRC.

9B

On Sep 8, 9:25*pm, Andy wrote:
On Sep 8, 5:45*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:



On Sep 8, 12:36*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:07*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:50*am, LOV2AV8 wrote:

As long as we're discussing a rules change and not a score change for
the day. *Many other contestants aborted at the first turn point
rather than the second turn point because of the Class C airspace
conflict with getting home.

Randy

What day of what contest was this? What was the issue with going
around class C? How was it impossible to continue the course,
impossible to go around class C, but easy to go over? I'm not being
hostile, I'd just like to go look at the task and results. Stated in
the abstract it all seems so unlikely, so it would be good to know the
practical circumstance.

John Cochrane

This was the first day of the Southwest Soaring Championships flown
from Tucson Soaring Club. *The CD set a long and challenging task that
proved too long, mostly because of a late start. *Only one contestant
completed the task, three landed out and the rest (including me)
abandoned.

We routinely fly over Tucson Class C as it's often the quickest and
safest way home from tiger country.

Mike

I'm still trying to get a sense of whether "this was a real problem"
or whether this is some hypothetical question.

The SSA contest report says this was an area task from El Tiro to
Amado, southwest of Tucson, with a 25 mile circle around Amado. The
direct courseline to Amado doesn't intersect the Tucson class C,
though it does come close; the Tucson class C is east of courseline.
Looking at the chart, I would have flown the line of high ground even
further west of courseline, ending up at Keystone peak or thereabouts.
My options would have been the line of airports, Ruby Star, Flying
Diamond, Ryan, Taylor, all again a bit west of courseline and heading
right back to El Tiro and the second turnpoint. I just don't see how
anyone could have gotten stuck behind the Tucson class C. And it looks
like the CD did *a good job of setting a course that really didn't
cause a problem.

So, tell the story. Where were you guys that you really felt this was
the only safe option? How did you get there? Or is this all
hypothetical?

There is a lot of complaining around here about rules being too
complicated. Carving out an exception for class C overflights in
abandoned tasks is certainly going to be complicated. So it matters
whether this is a real problem, or just the beginning of winter what-
ifs.

John Cochrane

John,

I think you've mistaken the Southwest Soaring Championships (a non-
sanctioned local contest) with the Region 9 that was also held at El
Tiro. The task in question was:

* ID * Name * * * * * * * * Distance (Miles) * Radius
* *106 * 106 Waterman * * * * * 0.00 * * * * * * *5.0
* * 62 * 062 MtWshngt * * * * *77.13
* * 12 * 012 Benson * * * * * 126.93
* * 13 * 013 Biospher * * * * 176.85
* * *1 * 001 EL TIRO * * * * *209.27 * * * * * * *1.0

I have a few recollections of making long final glides to El Tiro from
the east. Given the distances involved a long, flat glide would
occasionally get you close to the top of the Class C and in that
instance going around could run you out of glide distance.
Disclaimer: My recollection is decades old and based on the old ARSA
configuration at Tucson IIRC.

9B

Well, if it's non-sanctioned, go ahead and make your own rules, or
exceptions!

John Cochrane

On Sep 9, 6:47*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Sep 8, 9:25*pm, Andy wrote:





On Sep 8, 5:45*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 12:36*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:07*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:50*am, LOV2AV8 wrote:

As long as we're discussing a rules change and not a score change for
the day. *Many other contestants aborted at the first turn point
rather than the second turn point because of the Class C airspace
conflict with getting home.

Randy

What day of what contest was this? What was the issue with going
around class C? How was it impossible to continue the course,
impossible to go around class C, but easy to go over? I'm not being
hostile, I'd just like to go look at the task and results. Stated in
the abstract it all seems so unlikely, so it would be good to know the
practical circumstance.

John Cochrane

This was the first day of the Southwest Soaring Championships flown
from Tucson Soaring Club. *The CD set a long and challenging task that
proved too long, mostly because of a late start. *Only one contestant
completed the task, three landed out and the rest (including me)
abandoned.

We routinely fly over Tucson Class C as it's often the quickest and
safest way home from tiger country.

Mike

I'm still trying to get a sense of whether "this was a real problem"
or whether this is some hypothetical question.

The SSA contest report says this was an area task from El Tiro to
Amado, southwest of Tucson, with a 25 mile circle around Amado. The
direct courseline to Amado doesn't intersect the Tucson class C,
though it does come close; the Tucson class C is east of courseline.
Looking at the chart, I would have flown the line of high ground even
further west of courseline, ending up at Keystone peak or thereabouts..
My options would have been the line of airports, Ruby Star, Flying
Diamond, Ryan, Taylor, all again a bit west of courseline and heading
right back to El Tiro and the second turnpoint. I just don't see how
anyone could have gotten stuck behind the Tucson class C. And it looks
like the CD did *a good job of setting a course that really didn't
cause a problem.

So, tell the story. Where were you guys that you really felt this was
the only safe option? How did you get there? Or is this all
hypothetical?

There is a lot of complaining around here about rules being too
complicated. Carving out an exception for class C overflights in
abandoned tasks is certainly going to be complicated. So it matters
whether this is a real problem, or just the beginning of winter what-
ifs.

John Cochrane

John,

I think you've mistaken the Southwest Soaring Championships (a non-
sanctioned local contest) with the Region 9 that was also held at El
Tiro. The task in question was:

* ID * Name * * * * * * * * Distance (Miles) * Radius
* *106 * 106 Waterman * * * * * 0.00 * * * * * * *5.0
* * 62 * 062 MtWshngt * * * * *77.13
* * 12 * 012 Benson * * * * * 126.93
* * 13 * 013 Biospher * * * * 176.85
* * *1 * 001 EL TIRO * * * * *209.27 * * * * * * *1.0

I have a few recollections of making long final glides to El Tiro from
the east. Given the distances involved a long, flat glide would
occasionally get you close to the top of the Class C and in that
instance going around could run you out of glide distance.
Disclaimer: My recollection is decades old and based on the old ARSA
configuration at Tucson IIRC.

9B

Well, if it's non-sanctioned, go ahead and make your own rules, or
exceptions!

John Cochrane- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ok, just to makes things clear:

The task was a speed task, first turnpoint way south of Tucson (Mt
Washington, I think, near Nogales), second turnpont Benson (east of
Tucson, directly across the Class C from El Tiro), then Biosphere
(north of Tucson), then El Tiro. By the time I got near Benson, the
day was dying and I decided to abort the task rather than head up into
a possible landout. At that point, I found a climb that allowed me to
get well above the Class C and gave me final glide back to El Tiro. I
contacted approach, overflew the "closed airspace", and landed back at
El Tiro.

I understand (and agree with completely) the rule about no overflying
closed airspace WHEN ON TASK. And I have no problem with losing my
score and getting penalized for this flight, because I misinterpreted
the rule that is clear as currently written and decided to take what I
considered a safe and legal route home. My question was about whether
the rule should be amended IN THE FUTURE to allow legal overflight (or
even, with clearance, flight through) controlled airspace during part
of a contest flight that is no longer "on task" i.e. an aborted return
from a task as there is no competitive benefit for doing so (unless
one considers avoiding a long retrieve a competitive advantage ;^).

Up side? Safety, convenience, full use of the airspace we are allowed
to use, etc. Downside? Scoring complication, rule complication, more
chances for airspace violation.

My opinion is that it's ultimately the pilot's, not the SSA's, job to
comply with the FARs - since it's the pilot that gets hammered if he
gets a violation, no the SSA. And scoring complication is a software
issue, nowadays - we already score to the point of a task abort, so
"added complication" seems a bit of a stretch. I totally support the
SSA requirement to stay out of closed airspace when on task, since a
pilot should not be tasked through airspace that he may not be able to
legally fly through, or require equipment he may not have.

Anyway, I just thought this situation was interesting enough to
warrant some discussion - especially since it is a bit of a regional
problem (I can't see this being a problem back East!).

Cheers,

Kirk
66

On Sep 9, 4:47*am, John Cochrane
wrote:
On Sep 8, 9:25*pm, Andy wrote:





On Sep 8, 5:45*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 12:36*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:07*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:50*am, LOV2AV8 wrote:

As long as we're discussing a rules change and not a score change for
the day. *Many other contestants aborted at the first turn point
rather than the second turn point because of the Class C airspace
conflict with getting home.

Randy

What day of what contest was this? What was the issue with going
around class C? How was it impossible to continue the course,
impossible to go around class C, but easy to go over? I'm not being
hostile, I'd just like to go look at the task and results. Stated in
the abstract it all seems so unlikely, so it would be good to know the
practical circumstance.

John Cochrane

This was the first day of the Southwest Soaring Championships flown
from Tucson Soaring Club. *The CD set a long and challenging task that
proved too long, mostly because of a late start. *Only one contestant
completed the task, three landed out and the rest (including me)
abandoned.

We routinely fly over Tucson Class C as it's often the quickest and
safest way home from tiger country.

Mike

I'm still trying to get a sense of whether "this was a real problem"
or whether this is some hypothetical question.

The SSA contest report says this was an area task from El Tiro to
Amado, southwest of Tucson, with a 25 mile circle around Amado. The
direct courseline to Amado doesn't intersect the Tucson class C,
though it does come close; the Tucson class C is east of courseline.
Looking at the chart, I would have flown the line of high ground even
further west of courseline, ending up at Keystone peak or thereabouts..
My options would have been the line of airports, Ruby Star, Flying
Diamond, Ryan, Taylor, all again a bit west of courseline and heading
right back to El Tiro and the second turnpoint. I just don't see how
anyone could have gotten stuck behind the Tucson class C. And it looks
like the CD did *a good job of setting a course that really didn't
cause a problem.

So, tell the story. Where were you guys that you really felt this was
the only safe option? How did you get there? Or is this all
hypothetical?

There is a lot of complaining around here about rules being too
complicated. Carving out an exception for class C overflights in
abandoned tasks is certainly going to be complicated. So it matters
whether this is a real problem, or just the beginning of winter what-
ifs.

John Cochrane

John,

I think you've mistaken the Southwest Soaring Championships (a non-
sanctioned local contest) with the Region 9 that was also held at El
Tiro. The task in question was:

* ID * Name * * * * * * * * Distance (Miles) * Radius
* *106 * 106 Waterman * * * * * 0.00 * * * * * * *5.0
* * 62 * 062 MtWshngt * * * * *77.13
* * 12 * 012 Benson * * * * * 126.93
* * 13 * 013 Biospher * * * * 176.85
* * *1 * 001 EL TIRO * * * * *209.27 * * * * * * *1.0

I have a few recollections of making long final glides to El Tiro from
the east. Given the distances involved a long, flat glide would
occasionally get you close to the top of the Class C and in that
instance going around could run you out of glide distance.
Disclaimer: My recollection is decades old and based on the old ARSA
configuration at Tucson IIRC.

9B

Well, if it's non-sanctioned, go ahead and make your own rules, or
exceptions!

John Cochrane

:-)

They use the Regional Sports Class rules AFAIK.

This situation could just as easily have come up at Region 9, and
Minden/Truckee/Air Sailing have a similar geometry in relation to
Reno. No other western site comes to mind where this is an issue, but
I don't know them all. I think this situation comes up once in a blue
moon. The tasking has to be basically "around" the Class C and the day
has to "end" with pilots on the far side with enough altitude to get
home but not around the Class C. It can create a conundrum regarding
getting home versus preserving points.

If overflight were allowed post abandoning the task I could imagine
situations where a pilot hugs the far boundary of the airspace trying
to make headway towards the next turnpoint with the knowledge that at
any point s/he could abandon and scoot across the restricted airspace
to get home. Depending on the configuration of the task the scorer
might be hard pressed to determine at what point the task was
abandoned since the pilot might still be making progress towards the
next turnpoint while over the restricted airspace. In that case,
depending on how the rule was written, the pilot might have to turn
partly away from home back across the restricted airspace for a number
of miles in order to create a clear "abandon point" that is closest to
the next turn while still outside the restricted area. IMO that's too
much rule and pilot decision complexity for a situation that comes up
rarely. An alternate solution is to advise CD's not to task in ways
that might create these sorts of conflicts.

I know in the past CD's have declared airspace above restricted areas
"open" (a TFR in my direct experience). I don't know if that's within
the rules or not.

9B

On Sep 7, 8:01*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

• if in the judgment of the CD there was any realistic possibility of
a vertical airspace violation, the closest vertical approach to the
nearest closed airspace shall be calculated based on a climb rate of
1000 feet per minute

I missed this one.

Does that mean that you could get a penalty if you get within
1,000*(sample interval in seconds)/60 of 17,500', and if you drop
fixes you are at risk for a penalty if you are within (# dropped
fixes)*1,000*(sample interval in seconds)/60 of 17,500'. Is there also
a decent rate calculation to get you back down to your next fix?

There must be some threshold that determines "realistic possibility".

9B

On Sep 9, 6:09*am, "kirk.stant" wrote:
I understand (and agree with completely) the rule about no overflying
closed airspace WHEN ON TASK. *And I have no problem with losing my
score and getting penalized for this flight, because I misinterpreted
the rule that is clear as currently written and decided to take what I
considered a safe and legal route home. *My question was about whether
the rule should be amended IN THE FUTURE to allow legal overflight (or
even, with clearance, flight through) controlled airspace during part
of a contest flight that is no longer "on task" i.e. an aborted return
from a task as there is no competitive benefit for doing so (unless
one considers avoiding a long retrieve a competitive advantage ;^).

But it's not that simple. How does the scorer know where you declared
your intention to abort? The person that won the day was also
thinking of aborting at the first turn and followed a similar route
back to yours. Conditions then improved and he made a large detour to
get back toward the second turnpoint. Maybe you would have done the
same thing. How would you have cancelled your intention to abort?

I think the FAI rules would have handled this situation just fine.
You would have been scores as landing out at the class C boundary and
the distance on that leg would have been scored as progress toward the
second turnpoint.

Andy

But it's not that simple. *How does the scorer know where you declared
your intention to abort? *The person that won the day was also
thinking of aborting at the first turn and followed a similar route
back to yours. Conditions then improved and he made a large detour to
get back toward the second turnpoint. *Maybe you would have done the
same thing. How would you have cancelled your intention to abort?

I think the FAI rules would have handled this situation just fine.
You would have been scores as landing out at the class C boundary and
the distance on that leg would have been scored as progress toward the
second turnpoint.

Andy

How does the scorer know where to score to if someone aborts
normally? Doesn't the scoring program look for the farthest logger
point in the direction of the next turnpoint (that isn't actually
reached) to determine how to score distance, after it determines that
the task wasn't completed? Then it would seem easy to not assess a
violation for any airspace incursion after that point is determined.
The scorer shouldn't have to do anything.

But I admit I'm assuming a lot about Winscore, so may very well be
completely wrong about this.

Kirk

On Sep 9, 2:02*pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
But it's not that simple. *How does the scorer know where you declared
your intention to abort? *The person that won the day was also
thinking of aborting at the first turn and followed a similar route
back to yours. Conditions then improved and he made a large detour to
get back toward the second turnpoint. *Maybe you would have done the
same thing. How would you have cancelled your intention to abort?

I think the FAI rules would have handled this situation just fine.
You would have been scores as landing out at the class C boundary and
the distance on that leg would have been scored as progress toward the
second turnpoint.

Andy

How does the scorer know where to score to if someone aborts
normally? *Doesn't the scoring program look for the farthest logger
point in the direction of the next turnpoint (that isn't actually
reached) to determine how to score distance, after it determines that
the task wasn't completed? *Then it would seem easy to not assess a
violation for any airspace incursion after that point is determined.
The scorer shouldn't have to do anything.

But I admit I'm assuming a lot about Winscore, so may very well be
completely wrong about this.

Kirk

I can definitely lay out some tasks in relation to restricted areas
(like Class C's) where the pilot would be required to backtrack away
from the next turnpoint (and home) to avoid the -100 point outcome if
s/he abandoned the task and elected to traverse the restricted area.
This would require careful piloting to ensure that your greatest
progress towards the next turnpoint was outside the restricted area.
To make this really obvious imagine that the second to last turn is
across a Class C from home and the last turn is a steering turn just
20 miles abeam of the finish. You'd have to do some clever
trigonometry to figure out how to cross the Class C after making the
second to last turn in order to get home without making progress
towards the final turn within the restricted area.

9B

On Sep 9, 12:48*pm, Andy wrote:
On Sep 9, 4:47*am, John Cochrane
wrote:



On Sep 8, 9:25*pm, Andy wrote:

On Sep 8, 5:45*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 12:36*pm, Mike the Strike wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:07*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

On Sep 8, 10:50*am, LOV2AV8 wrote:

As long as we're discussing a rules change and not a score change for
the day. *Many other contestants aborted at the first turn point
rather than the second turn point because of the Class C airspace
conflict with getting home.

Randy

What day of what contest was this? What was the issue with going
around class C? How was it impossible to continue the course,
impossible to go around class C, but easy to go over? I'm not being
hostile, I'd just like to go look at the task and results. Stated in
the abstract it all seems so unlikely, so it would be good to know the
practical circumstance.

John Cochrane

This was the first day of the Southwest Soaring Championships flown
from Tucson Soaring Club. *The CD set a long and challenging task that
proved too long, mostly because of a late start. *Only one contestant
completed the task, three landed out and the rest (including me)
abandoned.

We routinely fly over Tucson Class C as it's often the quickest and
safest way home from tiger country.

Mike

I'm still trying to get a sense of whether "this was a real problem"
or whether this is some hypothetical question.

The SSA contest report says this was an area task from El Tiro to
Amado, southwest of Tucson, with a 25 mile circle around Amado. The
direct courseline to Amado doesn't intersect the Tucson class C,
though it does come close; the Tucson class C is east of courseline..
Looking at the chart, I would have flown the line of high ground even
further west of courseline, ending up at Keystone peak or thereabouts.
My options would have been the line of airports, Ruby Star, Flying
Diamond, Ryan, Taylor, all again a bit west of courseline and heading
right back to El Tiro and the second turnpoint. I just don't see how
anyone could have gotten stuck behind the Tucson class C. And it looks
like the CD did *a good job of setting a course that really didn't
cause a problem.

So, tell the story. Where were you guys that you really felt this was
the only safe option? How did you get there? Or is this all
hypothetical?

There is a lot of complaining around here about rules being too
complicated. Carving out an exception for class C overflights in
abandoned tasks is certainly going to be complicated. So it matters
whether this is a real problem, or just the beginning of winter what-
ifs.

John Cochrane

John,

I think you've mistaken the Southwest Soaring Championships (a non-
sanctioned local contest) with the Region 9 that was also held at El
Tiro. The task in question was:

* ID * Name * * * * * * * * Distance (Miles) * Radius
* *106 * 106 Waterman * * * * * 0.00 * * * * * * *5.0
* * 62 * 062 MtWshngt * * * * *77.13
* * 12 * 012 Benson * * * * * 126.93
* * 13 * 013 Biospher * * * * 176.85
* * *1 * 001 EL TIRO * * * * *209.27 * * * * * * *1.0

I have a few recollections of making long final glides to El Tiro from
the east. Given the distances involved a long, flat glide would
occasionally get you close to the top of the Class C and in that
instance going around could run you out of glide distance.
Disclaimer: My recollection is decades old and based on the old ARSA
configuration at Tucson IIRC.

9B

Well, if it's non-sanctioned, go ahead and make your own rules, or
exceptions!

John Cochrane

:-)

They use the Regional Sports Class rules AFAIK.

This situation could just as easily have come up at Region 9, and
Minden/Truckee/Air Sailing have a similar geometry in relation to
Reno. No other western site comes to mind where this is an issue, but
I don't know them all. *I think this situation comes up once in a blue
moon. The tasking has to be basically "around" the Class C and the day
has to "end" with pilots on the far side with enough altitude to get
home but not around the Class C. *It can create a conundrum regarding
getting home versus preserving points.

If overflight were allowed post abandoning the task I could imagine
situations where a pilot hugs the far boundary of the airspace trying
to make headway towards the next turnpoint with the knowledge that at
any point s/he could abandon and scoot across the restricted airspace
to get home. Depending on the configuration *of the task the scorer
might be hard pressed to determine at what point the task was
abandoned since the pilot might still be making progress towards the
next turnpoint while over the restricted airspace. In that case,
depending on how the rule was written, the pilot might have to turn
partly away from home back across the restricted airspace for a number
of miles in order to create a clear "abandon point" that is closest to
the next turn while still outside the restricted area. IMO that's too
much rule and pilot decision complexity for a situation that comes up
rarely. An alternate solution is to advise CD's not to task in ways
that might create these sorts of conflicts.

I know in the past CD's have declared airspace above restricted areas
"open" (a TFR in my direct experience). I don't know if that's within
the rules or not.

9B

The SSA directive is clear - no flying above any closed airspace. The
rules seem to provide wiggle room for a CD to "open" closed airspace
but that is not the intent. Is is intended to deal with for example
restricted areas that may or may not be active.

The more important question for me is why is the CD setting a task
that sets this situation up?