Skycatcher IFR?

Vaughn Simon wrote:
"Dave S" wrote in message
...
Vaughn Simon wrote:

If not, that would certainly limit its usefulness as a trainer.
Not with regards to training sport pilots.

(One is tempted to say "no ****", but that would not be polite.) To
earn its keep at a flight school/FBO, any trainer needs to be capable of more
than teaching sport pilots.

Vaughn



Since we are being polite, I will politely point out that most private
pilot proficiency and training items can be accomplished in a light
sport aircraft that is equipped only to LSA requirements.

Exceptions being instrument flight training and night training.

Dave

wrote:
LSAs are supposed to be VFR only. I can't find anywhere in the rules
that allow for an LSA to be IFR certified. If you find it let us
know. http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf

The Light-Sport Aircraft were not intended for complex operations.



Gilan, A fully certified airplane can be used by an LSA pilot provided
it also meets LSA requirements (weight, speed, etc). If it incidentally
also has lights for night flight, or instrumentation for IFR, that
doesn't prohibit a sport pilot from using the plane within the limits of
their sport pilot privileges.

Even the current Continental Katana's are VFR only. I heard somewhere
is has to do with how the composite structure would dissipate lightning
if struck. I think they added some metal in the structure to address
this on the Star.

Sorry, I don't remember when the night legal change came out.

I don't think it would be hard to find someone who would take a Tecnam
IFR. I would take ours into the scud if it was an IFR version. It's
every bit as stable as my C172 only I don't have to worry about carb ice
in the clouds like I do with my 172.

Helen

Mike Isaksen wrote:
"Helen" wrote in message ...
Actually, both 912's are currently night legal. (Rotax changed that
designation on the 912ULS after the LSA market came out.)

OK, the two 912 series I actually meant was the 80hp and the 100hp. But
within the 100hp group I believe you are correct. Both the ULS and the S are
currently night legal. Do you recall when Rotax made the ULS night legal, I
don't think it had it the first summer that the LSAs hit? I think it was
recent.

Here's the ops manual (get your metric conv sheets out):
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03925.pdf

And a service bulletin restricting fuel to 5% alcohol:
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.co...kus/d03830.pdf

Only the 912S, the one on the Katana, is IFR legal though. Also, it is my
understandig the the 912S does support a vaccum system, although the ULS
does not.

I recall the first Rotax Katanas that hit the US were non-IFR cert?!?
You are correct about the Vac pump option on the new 912s.

Also, in addition to the part 91 night equipment list, ASTM has a night
list of its own which includes some sort of attitude indicator and panel
lights.

But I don't believe the ASTM has even come out with a draft of the proposed
IMC operational standards. They may also be reaching well beyond their scope
as charged by the FAA. This is certainly an exciting and in flux issue.

Tecnams are currently available both night and IFR legal and a very nice
planes.

Tecnam do indeed make a nice series of LSAs. Heck, with the moveable seat
even I can fit inside. And they are still the only LSA I've seen with
defrost to the windshield, something I consider nessesary when it gets cold
out and 2 pilots can fog up the inside pretty quick. But even they have yet
to offer pitot heat. And I have not been able to find were the prop
manufacturer states their wood/comp prop can be used in IMC. I would love to
hear about someone who actually filed and flew IFR in IMC (and willing to
give their real name).

What I do see is an effort by many LSA to equip to better than the FAR part
91 equipment minimums. And that then allows the FBO schools to use the LSA
to train for PPLs at 4 gallons per hour.

Like I said, stay tuned. This is an exciting time in LSAs, and the rules are
being written as we watch.

The VFR only limitation is strictly on the light sport airman not the
light sport aircraft. You aren't going to find this anywhere in the
FARs because most of these planes are not certified by the FAA, but by
ASTM.

Here's a good article that will explain it to you, Note: Since the
article was written the 912ULS has been approved for night ops.

http://www.sportpilot.org/news/051013_ifr.html

Helen

wrote:
LSAs are supposed to be VFR only. I can't find anywhere in the rules
that allow for an LSA to be IFR certified. If you find it let us
know. http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/sport_rule.pdf

The Light-Sport Aircraft were not intended for complex operations.


Have a good day and stay out of the trees!
See ya on Sport Aircraft group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sport_Aircraft/




On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Helen wrote:
Even the current Continental Katana's are VFR only. I heard somewhere
is has to do with how the composite structure would dissipate lightning
if struck. I think they added some metal in the structure to address
this on the Star.

Sorry, I don't remember when the night legal change came out.

I don't think it would be hard to find someone who would take a Tecnam
IFR. I would take ours into the scud if it was an IFR version. It's
every bit as stable as my C172 only I don't have to worry about carb ice
in the clouds like I do with my 172.

Is the Tecnam all aluminum? I'd be worried about a composite airplane
taking a lightning hit if it doesn't have the embedded metal mesh, etc.

Matt

Helen wrote:
The VFR only limitation is strictly on the light sport airman not the
light sport aircraft. You aren't going to find this anywhere in the
FARs because most of these planes are not certified by the FAA, but by
ASTM.

Are you sure about this? I thought the FAA still had to certify them,
just that they will certify any that meet the ASTM standard.

Matt

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR certified.
http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html

On Oct 15, 6:24 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR certified.http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html

So then I assume the pilot would need a current class 3 medical,
correct?

-Robert

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:04:26 -0000, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

On Oct 15, 6:24 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR certified.http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html

So then I assume the pilot would need a current class 3 medical,
correct?

Correct, but only when performing those tasks that require use of a Recreational
or higher license. A Sport Pilot can climb into the airplane and fly day VFR,
but if he's going to go on the gauges he needs the appropriate license and
rating (and medical to go with the license).

The FAA made a big terminology mistake with the new rules; they use the same
term for a *definition* as for an aircraft certification category. Any aircraft
meeting the 14 CFR Part 1 definition for "Light Sport Aircraft" can be flown by
a pilot exercising Sport Pilot privileges, whether it's a Private pilot with an
expired medical, or a person with the new Sport Pilot rating. This definition
is summarized at:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/sportpilot.jpg

However, the FAA also added "Light Sport Aircraft" as a certification category,
both as "Special" and "Experimental." These are aircraft that comply with the
ASTM standards. There's nothing that I know of that precludes aircraft in these
two categories from flying IFR if properly equipped AND with a pilot with
appropriate ratings at the controls. The ASTM standard has a required minimum
for instruments and equipment (which, in fact, requires less instruments than
Part 91 for day VFR) but does not define a maximum.

Ron Wanttaja

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Oct 12, 4:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

Will Sport aircraft be allowed to be IFR certified?
-Robert

There is at least one S-LSA aircraft that is IFR certified.
http://www.newplane.com/amd/amd/601_SLSA/601.html
Ya know, I can't imagine spending an hour on a seven mile final in IMC. :~(