Skycatcher IFR?

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 07:16:52 -0800, C J Campbell
wrote:

On 2007-10-16 07:46:25 -0700, xyzzy said:

On Oct 12, 7:30 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt

You've gotten a lot of good replies here so it may be redundant, but I
did want to mention I saw the Skycatcher at OshKosh and asked one of
the Cessna salesdrones if it would be IFR capable and he said no.

Putting the technical and regulatory limitations aside, I doubt Cessna
would want to cannibalize 172 sales by offering a much cheaper IFR
alternative.

Yeah, sure. Both the Skycatcher and the 172 have order backlogs running
into several years now. Somehow I doubt that Cessna is worried about
sales.

I could walk into my local STAR and pick up a 172 or 182 tomorrow.
Maybe the factory has a production backlog for a long time out, but
from what I can tell it's likely because they're shoving completed
positions out onto the dealers where the aircraft sit in inventory
waiting for an end user.

And yet several ads for LSA aircraft state they are IFR certified.




C J Campbell wrote:

On 2007-10-12 16:30:31 -0700, Matt Whiting said:


Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

Matt


The Skycatcher is Cessna's Light Sport Aircraft. The FAA, in its
infinite wisdom, has decreed that new LSA cannot be certified for IFR.

However, all the needed wiring harness is there if someone wants to
convert the airplane to IFR flight.

On Thu, 22 Nov 2007 17:44:53 -0700, in rec.aviation.owning, Newps
wrote:

C J Campbell wrote:
The Skycatcher is Cessna's Light Sport Aircraft. The FAA, in its
infinite wisdom, has decreed that new LSA cannot be certified for IFR.

And yet several ads for LSA aircraft state they are IFR certified.

Isn't it just LSA *pilots* that can't fly IFR? If so, that'd be no reason
to omit IFR hardware from the plane. You just need a private and instrument
ticket to fly it IFR.

-Scott

Matt Whiting said:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

The Cessna rep at the recent Hartford Expo claimed the Skycather will be VFR
day and nite authorized per the ASTM standard (it will obviously exceed the
Part 91 minimum requirements), so it can be used as both a SP and primary
PPL line trainer. He said that it will NOT be authorized for flight into
IMC, even when the ASTM finalizes their IFR operations consensus standard.
When I pressed him on why, he claimed that Cessna gave into that as a design
limitation to Garmin, before Garmin custom designed the displays. He claimed
that Garmin could (would??) not meet price and performance (with limited
redundancy) if the boxes needed to meet future IMC/IFR operational
conditions.

I have been unable to vet this "Garmin" information. But I know that if any
LSA component manufacturer of the airframe (ie engine, prop, etc) disallows
operation at night or in IMC then that operation is forbidden per the FAA
rules.

This whole issue of PPLs operating LSAs in IMC is very nebulus to me a the
moment. Helen Woods had steared me back to the FAA docs that clearly show
IFR operations of LSAs falling within the final rules. I have the
disadvantage of having been involved in some of the original development and
comment process, and now am a little confused as to what actually made it
into the final docs. I promised myself that on a couple of cold snowy nites
this winter I'll print them all out and (re)read them.


"C J Campbell" wrote...
The Skycatcher is Cessna's Light Sport Aircraft. The FAA, in its infinite
wisdom, has decreed that new LSA cannot be certified for IFR.

I have been a proponent of that line of thinking since the original rfc. The
FAA now says we are both wrong. I will wait for the final Consensus
Standard, but I don't like SEL ops with Part 91 minimum equipment in IMC, so
I don't see myself getting in a LSA for an IRF trip. Hell,... can anyone
tell me if any LSA maker besides Tecnam even has window defrost?

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:51:13 GMT, "Mike Isaksen"
wrote:



Matt Whiting said:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

The Cessna rep at the recent Hartford Expo claimed the Skycather will be VFR
day and nite authorized per the ASTM standard (it will obviously exceed the
Part 91 minimum requirements), so it can be used as both a SP and primary
PPL line trainer. He said that it will NOT be authorized for flight into
IMC, even when the ASTM finalizes their IFR operations consensus standard.

FWIW, I know of a flight school that passed on DA-20's for PPL
training, due to the lack of basic IFR ability.

The school owner explained to me that they wanted basic IFR capability
in case the instructor needed to fly the airplane back to base in IFR
after changing weather conditions.

On 2007-11-23 03:26:51 -0800, B A R R Y said:

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:51:13 GMT, "Mike Isaksen"
wrote:



Matt Whiting said:
Does anyone know if the Skycatcher will be IFR certified? It doesn't
appear to be from what little I've found at the Cessna web site.

The Cessna rep at the recent Hartford Expo claimed the Skycather will be VFR
day and nite authorized per the ASTM standard (it will obviously exceed the
Part 91 minimum requirements), so it can be used as both a SP and primary
PPL line trainer. He said that it will NOT be authorized for flight into
IMC, even when the ASTM finalizes their IFR operations consensus standard.

FWIW, I know of a flight school that passed on DA-20's for PPL
training, due to the lack of basic IFR ability.

The school owner explained to me that they wanted basic IFR capability
in case the instructor needed to fly the airplane back to base in IFR
after changing weather conditions.

Well, that would certainly be a possibility around here. I have had to
fly back IFR several times.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:


The Skycatcher is Cessna's Light Sport Aircraft. The FAA, in its
infinite wisdom, has decreed that new LSA cannot be certified for IFR.


They have done no such thing.

It is true that there is no "IFR certification" for an LSA, but none is
required. The aircraft simply needs to meet IFR equipment requirements
and have no operating limitations on it or its equipment against such.

The Tecnam series is completely IFR legal if you buy it equipped as such:

http://www.tecnamaircraft.com/

Helen

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
C J Campbell wrote:

The Skycatcher is Cessna's Light Sport Aircraft. The FAA, in its
infinite wisdom, has decreed that new LSA cannot be certified for IFR.


They have done no such thing.