Confusing SSA hand signals that should be changed

The procedure in most European countries I've flown is very simple:
No radio communication, no take-off.
It's the 21st century.

I fly from a place where tow planes don't have radios. When I fly from another operation that have radio equipped tow planes (everywhere else I fly from) I consciously have to tell myself I have comms with tow plane.

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 12:06:03 AM UTC-7, Tango Whisky wrote:
The procedure in most European countries I've flown is very simple:
No radio communication, no take-off.
It's the 21st century.

There are still places, as Jonathan has noted that still dont use radios in the tow plane let alone the gliders, I personally find that objectionable, but not to the point of refusing to fly there. We at Prescott Area soaring use a winch over a mile away and no radio comms mean no tow until we do. And its not so much the before launch signals for me as the speed changes on tow that worry me more both winch and aero tow. Being a fairly new (50 aero tows) tow pilot, I find it particularly difficult, in the rough thermally air in AZ, to interpret signals from the glider without a radio call.

CH

On Saturday, March 31, 2018 at 3:06:03 AM UTC-4, Tango Whisky wrote:
The procedure in most European countries I've flown is very simple:
No radio communication, no take-off.
It's the 21st century.

We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter the air waves, there is plenty of that already. Hand signals work fine for routine hook up and launch procedures. Towplanes make departure calls of course. Radio calls between tow plane and glider are not discouraged. The 21st century exists in America too.

best,
Evan Ludeman / T8

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 18:34:32 -0700, Tango Eight wrote:

We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter
the air waves, there is plenty of that already.

Thats never a problem at my club because, like all the bigger UK clubs,
we have our own frequency. Is this not usual in the USA?

Not criticising: just curious.



--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Le dimanche 1 avril 2018 11:07:50 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie a écritÂ*:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 18:34:32 -0700, Tango Eight wrote:

We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter
the air waves, there is plenty of that already.

Thats never a problem at my club because, like all the bigger UK clubs,
we have our own frequency. Is this not usual in the USA?

Not criticising: just curious.



--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

If flying from a field with ATC, communication between glider and tug is typically done on a separate frequency. Once the slack has been taking up and everybody is ready to go, both switch to ATC (but the glider only listens)..

The main difference is that a lot of the soaring operations, clubs and
commercial operations in the US are based at public use airports and
there is general aviation traffic, commuter flights, sky diving clubs,
etc., using the same airport and frequency.Â* After getting out on
course, most gliders switch to a common frequency used mostly by
gliders, though I often hear military training flights there, as well.

To further muck up the waters, most uncontrolled airports in the USA use
one of a few frequencies as Unicom or Common Traffic Advisory Frequency
and, around Moriarty, there are at least three airports within line of
sight to gliders at altitude that use the same frequency.Â* And, if that
is not enough, one of those airports uses the same frequency for its
Automatic Terminal Information Service which, after a couple of mic
clicks or transmissions close together, will start broadcasting airport
weather information.

We don't have sky diving at Moriarty, but we do have a lot of general
aviation flights arriving, departing, practicing landings, fire bombers,
military helicopters, etc., and all are blended in with glider
operations, both the ABQ Soaring Club and Sundance Aviation, the
commercial operator.Â* On weekends, we'll have two or three tugs operating.

These are some of the reasons that hand signals are so useful at our
operations.

On 4/1/2018 3:07 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 18:34:32 -0700, Tango Eight wrote:

We have radios in all of our aircraft. We simply prefer not to clutter
the air waves, there is plenty of that already.

Thats never a problem at my club because, like all the bigger UK clubs,
we have our own frequency. Is this not usual in the USA?

Not criticising: just curious.




--
Dan, 5J

Sheesh Dan, is that all in the US?!?!
Slacker......
;-)

Yes, at our location, we do our hand signals which is pretty close to SSA standards.
Yes, if possible, we do radio. Not all trainers have a mounted radio, but may have a handheld.

We do a LOT of ground launch training before solo wing runner doing it solo.
Perfect!, nope.
Only perfect peeps I know are usuallly buttholes.

We do, we watch, we adapt.
We have a good record.
We are open to fine tune methods.
We are close to "SSA standards".

Yeah, I know.Â* We need more regulations and procedures...Â* Flying is
still too much fun. :-D

On 4/1/2018 1:56 PM, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Sheesh Dan, is that all in the US?!?!
Slacker......
;-)

Yes, at our location, we do our hand signals which is pretty close to SSA standards.
Yes, if possible, we do radio. Not all trainers have a mounted radio, but may have a handheld.

We do a LOT of ground launch training before solo wing runner doing it solo.
Perfect!, nope.
Only perfect peeps I know are usuallly buttholes.

We do, we watch, we adapt.
We have a good record.
We are open to fine tune methods.
We are close to "SSA standards".


--
Dan, 5J

On Sunday, April 1, 2018 at 2:56:46 PM UTC-5, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:
Sheesh Dan, is that all in the US?!?!
Slacker......
;-)

Yes, at our location, we do our hand signals which is pretty close to SSA standards.
Yes, if possible, we do radio. Not all trainers have a mounted radio, but may have a handheld.

We do a LOT of ground launch training before solo wing runner doing it solo.
Perfect!, nope.
Only perfect peeps I know are usuallly buttholes.

We do, we watch, we adapt.
We have a good record.
We are open to fine tune methods.
We are close to "SSA standards".

Hey Charlie,
"most perfect peeps are buttholes"?,
I pursue perfection and I'm not a butthole,
Well, maybe a little, no, your right, we're buttholes,
but we want people to like us!! :-)

Scott