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#1
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I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time
blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this Saturday. Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in Kill Devil Hills. I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection requirement is not applicable. I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says: "Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....." The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers. I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want to violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Frey PP-ASEL |
#2
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![]() "FryGuy" wrote in message 1... I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this Saturday. Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in Kill Devil Hills. I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection requirement is not applicable. I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says: "Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....." The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers. AOPA is correct in that the airplane is for hire, but that is not the subject of the CFR 14 section. For hire, the operator would get paid for the flight and that would include any compensation from any passenger/student. I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want to violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. How is the flight being paid for? |
#3
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When I was renting, planes that were over 100 hours were flagged 'no dual'
in the rental signup sheets. (Usually for about a week, whenever they could fit them into the maintenance schedule).. So I think your agrument is valid. However, they may have an insurance related issue with renting planes over the 100 hour inspection time. -- Ben C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y |
#4
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Irrelevant question Tarver.
You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you does not alter the way you are operating the flight. Bill A&P I.A. On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:25:44 -0800, "Tarver Engineering" wrote: "FryGuy" wrote in message . 41... I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this Saturday. Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in Kill Devil Hills. I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection requirement is not applicable. I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says: "Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....." The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers. AOPA is correct in that the airplane is for hire, but that is not the subject of the CFR 14 section. For hire, the operator would get paid for the flight and that would include any compensation from any passenger/student. I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want to violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. How is the flight being paid for? |
#5
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![]() "Bill Zaleski" wrote in message news ![]() Irrelevant question Tarver. My question goes directly to wether the flight is a CFR 14 violation. You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you does not alter the way you are operating the flight. If his friend pays for half the gas and only fryguy flies, he got compensted for his pilot activity. That is where the line is and I believe that is what the question is about. Please cease your top posting. On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:25:44 -0800, "Tarver Engineering" wrote: "FryGuy" wrote in message . 41... I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this Saturday. Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in Kill Devil Hills. I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection requirement is not applicable. I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says: "Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....." The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers. AOPA is correct in that the airplane is for hire, but that is not the subject of the CFR 14 section. For hire, the operator would get paid for the flight and that would include any compensation from any passenger/student. I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want to violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. How is the flight being paid for? |
#6
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My question goes directly to wether the flight is a CFR 14 violation.
You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you does not alter the way you are operating the flight. If his friend pays for half the gas and only fryguy flies, he got compensted for his pilot activity. That is where the line is and I believe that is what the question is about. We will both be flying. The other pilot will be flying up there and I'll be flying the return trip. We will be splitting the costs though. |
#7
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You just got the exact opposite answer from AOPA than a pilot at our FBO got
less than a month ago. He called when a plane he had reserved was due for it's 100hr. This was a current private pilot on a non-training and personal flight. I looked up the FAR and showed the lineman and advised that in my opinion no 100 hour was required for this flight but upon return any hours over 100 since the last inspection would be counted against the following inspection. The lineman called AOPA and they told him that if no flight instruction was taking place and if the flight was a not for hire flight, no 100 hour was needed. The person operating the aircraft (him) was not operating the aircraft for hire, it was a personal part 91 flight. The lineman then asked the local DE who runs his own FBO, plane rental, and maintenance shop. The DE also agrees that as long as it's not a for hire flight, including flight training, no 100 hour is required. The FBO does however have the right to stick to it's 100hr policy whether required or not. Slightly off the subject but interesting is that part of the FAR that requires 100 hour inspections for airplanes supplied by the instructor. I've heard arguments in the past that after a pilot meets the rental requirements of the FBO that the instructor is no longer the supplier of the airplane and no 100 hour is required. Another interesting finer point of the FARs to debate. What says the group? -- Jim Burns III Remove "nospam" to reply "FryGuy" wrote in message 1... I have a question around a 100 hour inspection requirement. I've had time blocked off at my local FBO for over a month to take a plane this Saturday. Me and another pilot buddy are taking up the coast of North Carolina and are going to hit the airports in the Outer Banks and go to the museum in Kill Devil Hills. I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection requirement is not applicable. I talked with someone at the AOPA and 91.409b says: "Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no person may operate an aircraft carrying any person (other than a crewmember) for hire, and no person may give flight instruction for hire in an aircraft which that person provides, unless within the preceeding 100 hours of time in service the aircraft has received and annual or 100 hour inspection....." The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers. I know this plane well and I know it is a good plane. I just don't want to violate any FARs. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Jeff Frey PP-ASEL |
#8
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![]() "FryGuy" wrote in message 1... I was just told that the aircraft we are renting is over the 100 hour inspection requirement. I asked them if they could get it done between now and then and they said they don't have time. Their argument is that we won't be doing any flight training and therefore the 100 hour inspection requirement is not applicable. They are correct, if they aren't carrying passengers for hire, or providing instruction, they don't need the 100 hour. The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a rental plane it is "for hire". Who ever told you that is an idiot. The reg says "CARRYING PASSENGERS FOR HIRE." You're A&P is right. Rental is not operating for hire. You don't need 100 hours, you don't need lifeboats or flares, etc... |
#9
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![]() "FryGuy" wrote in message 3... My question goes directly to wether the flight is a CFR 14 violation. You do not need the inspection for the trip. Only if a flight instructor, associated with the FBO who operates the bird is aboard giving flight instruction is it required. You could even use a CFI from outside the FBO and legally train without the inspection. You are not operating this for hire. The fact that the FBO rents to you does not alter the way you are operating the flight. If his friend pays for half the gas and only fryguy flies, he got compensted for his pilot activity. That is where the line is and I believe that is what the question is about. We will both be flying. The other pilot will be flying up there and I'll be flying the return trip. We will be splitting the costs though. I think you are safe. Of course, you were probaly safe before, unless you turned yourself in. ![]() |
#10
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Find somebody at AOPA that knows what the hell they are talking about. Your A&P
has it dead nuts on. Jim FryGuy shared these priceless pearls of wisdom: - -The rep at the AOPA said that their interpretation is that since it is a -rental plane it is "for hire". I talked with the head A&P Mechanic at the -FBO and he said "for hire" only means if their are paying passengers. Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup) VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor http://www.rst-engr.com |
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