If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
Hello all,
I just wanted to see if other CFIs and pilots have been seeing the same trend I have. I've been flying with a student for a little over a year now, and she's almost ready to solo. It will take her another year to get her ticket, for a total of 2 years, and probably 100 - 120 hours total, when done. Why? Because she's a busy CPA, and sometimes cannot fly for periods of up to a month. Obviously if a student pilot hasn't flown for a month, much of the next lesson is simply brushing off the rust. I've talked to a couple other local CFIs about this, and they have noticed a similar trend. As the cost of flight training has gone up (schools near mine cost approximately $130-$140 per hour, wet, with CFI), we have seen a seeming increase in the number of early mid-life (30-50 years old) professionals (CPAs, lawyers, doctors, etc.) taking lessons, because to them, money isn't a major issue. But TIME is. One CFI told me he has been working with a well-known doctor for over 2 years, and he probably won't take his checkride for another 1-2 years, simply because he cannot fly often. But, like my student, he really DOES want to fly, and DOES want to get their ticket. I talked to my student about this, and she's fine with taking 2 years. So is this becoming a trend? Two years or more to get a PP-ASEL, start to finish? And does this mean that it might be necessary to modify the traditional PP-ASEL curriculum to better meet the needs of these students? Just wanted to hear what other thought. Cheers, |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 07:29:02 -0700, wrote in
om: I've been flying with a student for a little over a year now, and she's almost ready to solo. It will take her another year to get her ticket, for a total of 2 years, and probably 100 - 120 hours total, when done. Why? Because she's a busy CPA, and sometimes cannot fly for periods of up to a month. Obviously if a student pilot hasn't flown for a month, much of the next lesson is simply brushing off the rust. Personally, I believe that there is reason for concern with this sort of hit-or-miss, long period flight training. Here are some thoughts to ponder: 1. JFK Jr. chose a similar course of instruction for similar reasons. His case bears grim testament to it's effectiveness. 2. Piloting requires a certain amount of recent experience if proficiency is to be maintained, hence the passenger-carrying and night proficiency requirements mandated by regulation. 3. The notion, that "now I have my airmans certificate, therefore I can fly as sporadically as I please" is a dangerous trap. I have spoken to a dental surgeon who used to do free medical flights to Mexico; he was transported by a pilot who let him take the aircraft controls at times (and he would reciprocate by letting the pilot pull teeth), and he considered becoming an airman. But he thought better of it, because he understood the necessity for ongoing recent experience, and knew he wouldn't be able to meet it. Perhaps you student should consider this ten-day path to an airmans certificate: http://www.perfectplanes.com/10day.html You'll find some more of my thoughts on the subject he http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...a?dmode=source |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
It has long been my goal, and I'll probably achieve it after I retire from
teaching engineering, to establish what Richard Bach called "School For Perfection". (c.f. "Gift of Wings", R. Bach) Four students per class, three classes during the first 4 weeks in June, July (or August, depending on the Oshkosh schedule), September, and October. (July or August is preparing for/recovering from Oshkosh.) One scholarship student per class, chosen from essays written by the applicants themselves .... age limit 17 up. 50 hours of wet time in a 172 and 25 hours of CFI time up front, cash, no refunds. $1000 into the "scholarship" fund each. You finish early, you get the balance back. You need more time, pony up per hour. You commit during those four weeks to come to our little mountain airstrip and stay in a local hotel; your significant other is welcome. Morning briefings at the hotel conference center. One flight in the morning of 1:00 with one observer in the back seat of the 172. Two students on the ground listening to the radio or studying ground school in the FBO. Land. Pilot gets out and gets to be one of the radio persons. The back seat gets into the left front, one of the radio guys gets into the back. Another 1:00 lesson. Rotate. Lunch at the airport deli. Another 1:00 in the afternoon using the same sort of rotation. Dinner somewhere together, be it at a local bistro or bbq over at my place. Ground school prep for the written back at the hotel until 9 pm. Do it again next morning. Sunday mornings off. Sunday afternoons wrenching on "your" plane getting ready for Monday morning lessons. Gotta go back home for an "emergency"? Unless it is a medical emergency in your immediate family, you are gone, never again to come back. Bye. No refund. Medical emergencies get to come back in next year's "class". When it gets to cross-country time, the schedule changes, but you've got the idea. Expensive? Nowhere NEAR as expensive as wet flight time at $120 an hour for 100-200 hours to get your ticket over a three or four year span. And, I believe, turning out pilots as opposed to airplane drivers. I'd dearly LOVE to do it back in Iowa City using Jay's place as the hotel, but I just can't handle four months away from home. And, I've got all my wrenching tools out here. It would be difficult, but it would be ideal. Drake: "...You ask about a flight school...young Mister Terrell is just beginning to fly, but he has spent a year and a half studying the wind and the sky, and the dynamics of unpowered flight. He has built forty gliders. Wingspans from eight inches up to the one you saw ... thirty-one feet. He has made his own wind tunnel and he has worked with the full size tunnel on Level Three." I said, "At that rate...it is going to take him a lifetime to learn how to fly." Drake: "Well of COURSE it will." (R. Bach) Jim -- "If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right." --Henry Ford wrote in message ps.com... Hello all, I just wanted to see if other CFIs and pilots have been seeing the same trend I have. I've been flying with a student for a little over a year now, and she's almost ready to solo. It will take her another year to get her ticket, for a total of 2 years, and probably 100 - 120 hours total, when done. Why? Because she's a busy CPA, and sometimes cannot fly for periods of up to a month. Obviously if a student pilot hasn't flown for a month, much of the next lesson is simply brushing off the rust. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
When it gets to cross-country time, the schedule changes, but you've got the idea. Expensive? Nowhere NEAR as expensive as wet flight time at $120 an hour for 100-200 hours to get your ticket over a three or four year span. And, I believe, turning out pilots as opposed to airplane drivers. Sounds like a good idea although I have my reservations. I also spread out my instruction over 3 years (with 4 different instructors) due to a lack of time and travel etc that kept me away from flying for months on occasions. While obviously it cost me a lot more, I also got exposed to a lot more scenarios than I would have in one month. Stronger crosswinds, and all kinds of different weather situations from wind shear on final to wet runways. I also feel uncomfortable with the idea of ponying up a lot of cash to go flying for a month with one instructor, what if I don't get along well with that instructor? Flexibility is important and since there are no guarantees of any kind, I wouldn't recommend a one month crash course to everybody, maybe it works for some people but I don't think it does for every one. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
I'm not a doctor, lawyer or CPA, but I was in a similar boat when I did my
PPL training. As an overworked IT guy, I was often working 60 hr. weeks and had to provide on-call support when not working (i.e. no flying when on call). I think it depends on the student. In my case, whenever I wasn't at work or in the airplane, I was studying everything I could get my hands on. I completed the PPL in 1.5 yrs. and 60 hrs. total time. Once I had the ticket in my hand I made more of an effort to keep current, but rental scheduling being what it is, I found that I only flew 60 hrs. the first year. That wasn't enough to make me feel comfortable, so I bought my own plane. Determined not to turn the plane into a ramp queen, I altered my schedule to make flying more of a priority. Frankly, it was a good excuse to quit working all the time. I doubt anyone has been on their deathbed regretting that they didn't spend more time at the office. For those that have overcrowded schedules, I think that some adjustment would eventually be necessary in order to keep current. I've flown with some busy professionals that only get 30 or so hrs of flying time per year and their skills are in a perpetual state of rustiness. John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180) -- Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
RST Engineering wrote:
It has long been my goal, and I'll probably achieve it after I retire from teaching engineering, to establish what Richard Bach called "School For Perfection". (c.f. "Gift of Wings", R. Bach) Four students per class, three classes during the first 4 weeks in June, July (or August, depending on the Oshkosh schedule), September, and October. (July or August is preparing for/recovering from Oshkosh.) One scholarship student per class, chosen from essays written by the applicants themselves ... age limit 17 up. 50 hours of wet time in a 172 and 25 hours of CFI time up front, cash, no refunds. $1000 into the "scholarship" fund each. You finish early, you get the balance back. You need more time, pony up per hour. You commit during those four weeks to come to our little mountain airstrip and stay in a local hotel; your significant other is welcome. Morning briefings at the hotel conference center. One flight in the morning of 1:00 with one observer in the back seat of the 172. Two students on the ground listening to the radio or studying ground school in the FBO. Land. Pilot gets out and gets to be one of the radio persons. The back seat gets into the left front, one of the radio guys gets into the back. Another 1:00 lesson. Rotate. Lunch at the airport deli. Another 1:00 in the afternoon using the same sort of rotation. Dinner somewhere together, be it at a local bistro or bbq over at my place. Ground school prep for the written back at the hotel until 9 pm. Do it again next morning. Sunday mornings off. Sunday afternoons wrenching on "your" plane getting ready for Monday morning lessons. Gotta go back home for an "emergency"? Unless it is a medical emergency in your immediate family, you are gone, never again to come back. Bye. No refund. Medical emergencies get to come back in next year's "class". When it gets to cross-country time, the schedule changes, but you've got the idea. Expensive? Nowhere NEAR as expensive as wet flight time at $120 an hour for 100-200 hours to get your ticket over a three or four year span. And, I believe, turning out pilots as opposed to airplane drivers. I'd dearly LOVE to do it back in Iowa City using Jay's place as the hotel, but I just can't handle four months away from home. And, I've got all my wrenching tools out here. It would be difficult, but it would be ideal. Drake: "...You ask about a flight school...young Mister Terrell is just beginning to fly, but he has spent a year and a half studying the wind and the sky, and the dynamics of unpowered flight. He has built forty gliders. Wingspans from eight inches up to the one you saw ... thirty-one feet. He has made his own wind tunnel and he has worked with the full size tunnel on Level Three." I said, "At that rate...it is going to take him a lifetime to learn how to fly." Drake: "Well of COURSE it will." (R. Bach) Jim I've always had a problem with crash courses for pilots, ESPECIALLY for primary training. The reason is that most of the actual learning you do in training isn't done during dual while under the pressure of flying the airplane but rather in between flights where the relaxed mind can better understand and comprehend what was done by rote in the air with the instructor. In other words, the time spent between dual sessions is in my opinion a necessary part of any OPTIMIZED training program as it is during these periods where maximum retention is attained. In any good training program, you need a constant schedule of dual inter spaced with periods away from the aircraft. ANY program that pushes a student on an inflexible ridged time line is in my opinion not an optimized training regimen. -- Dudley Henriques |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Time to earn license for professionals
On Sep 17, 12:40 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:
On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 07:29:02 -0700, wrote in om: I've been flying with a student for a little over a year now, and she's almost ready to solo. It will take her another year to get her ticket, for a total of 2 years, and probably 100 - 120 hours total, when done. Why? Because she's a busy CPA, and sometimes cannot fly for periods of up to a month. Obviously if a student pilot hasn't flown for a month, much of the next lesson is simply brushing off the rust. Personally, I believe that there is reason for concern with this sort of hit-or-miss, long period flight training. Here are some thoughts to ponder: 1. JFK Jr. chose a similar course of instruction for similar reasons. His case bears grim testament to it's effectiveness. 2. Piloting requires a certain amount of recent experience if proficiency is to be maintained, hence the passenger-carrying and night proficiency requirements mandated by regulation. 3. The notion, that "now I have my airmans certificate, therefore I can fly as sporadically as I please" is a dangerous trap. I have spoken to a dental surgeon who used to do free medical flights to Mexico; he was transported by a pilot who let him take the aircraft controls at times (and he would reciprocate by letting the pilot pull teeth), and he considered becoming an airman. But he thought better of it, because he understood the necessity for ongoing recent experience, and knew he wouldn't be able to meet it. Perhaps you student should consider this ten-day path to an airmans certificate: http://www.perfectplanes.com/10day.html You'll find some more of my thoughts on the subject hehttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...g/c4ef161ca761... You make some good points Larry. But I've also been rethinking the issue of flight proficiency as well. I have come to believe (after having done some...ahem..."interesting" BFRs) that pilot proficiency has a lot more to do with a reasonable self-assessment of one's skills, and self-discipline. I believe it is very possible to be an adequately proficient pilot flying just one hour per month (for example), IF the kind of flying one does allows for it. I flew with a guy for a BFR who flew no more than 20 hours per year. The first thing I do on BFRs is sit down with a cup of coffee and chat about flying - what kind of flying do you do...what do you want out of flying...tell me about your last flying trip, etc. This guy just loved to fly by himelf on nice days, VFR only...just flying around, looking at the beauty, enjoying being in the air. He usualy flew out of a low-traffic 5000 foot asphalt strip, outside of ATC-controlled airspace. Always flew on nice days, had personal minima he (said he) never broke. Just flew a 172. Occasionally flew a 60 mile XC to get a piece of pie or hamburger. In his BFR, he was adequate; above PP-ASEL PTS standards, but not much more. Now, this kind of low- risk, low-difficulty flying is (IMO) certainly reasonable for a guy who only flys once a month, in great weather, to long fields, in a simple plane he understands. He knew his limitations, and was seemingly appropriately managing them. Another guy I flew with flew a lot. Was much more active, and flew IFR a lot. His logbook showed about 150 hours in the previous year, with maybe 60 in the soup. He said his last trip was a long XC in a 182RG, ending in a localizer approach to minimums at an airport he'd never been to before. He was also OK in the cockpit...better than the first guy in terms of maneuvers and technical skill, but sometimes he seemed to have a hard time multitasking well. Now, I'm MUCH more concerned that I'll read about the second guy cashing in his chips in an airplane someday. I don't think he really will...he 'passed' his BFR, and we did some work on a couple of things, including multi-tasking. But he IS more likely (IMO) to run into trouble than the first guy, even tho he's far more 'proficient' and 'current', simply because of the kind of flying he does. I guess I am saying that I think a professional (or anyone else) who can only devote an hour a month to flying (or even less) can quite posibly be a completely safe and proficient pilot, as long as they understand the limitations imposed on their flying by their situation. Just my $0.02 worth Cheers, Cap |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Greeting Cards Earn Part time.... | coolguy17111987 | Piloting | 0 | March 9th 07 04:29 PM |
EARN CASH WHILE SAVING GAS | Gas Savers | Home Built | 0 | June 29th 06 06:12 PM |
Should the USA have a soaring license, not a glider license? | Mark James Boyd | Soaring | 0 | August 6th 04 07:16 PM |
they took me back in time and the nsa or japan wired my head and now they know the idea came from me so if your back in time and wounder what happen they change tim liverance history for good. I work at rts wright industries and it a time travel trap | tim liverance | Military Aviation | 0 | August 18th 03 12:18 AM |
Help me earn my Instrument | Products | 0 | July 16th 03 07:46 AM |