Reamed out by Approach

Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411" a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately

You could take the reverse approach of the controller asking the pilot
to call the tower. You could have called the tower after the flight and
pointed it out to him then, off freq.

I had a similar situation in NY airspace, where a controller claimed he
had been calling me all along and I should pay more attention - I was
paying attention and none of the calls sounded anything like my aircraft
or call number.

I just let it go though.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
At this point he really reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect.

It's not possible, even for the most skilled pilots or controllers, to
improve the quality of day experienced by someone who is determined to have
a bad one. It is possible, however, to recognize when someone is having a
bad day, and you should realize that the others on frequency at the time
will have done so. Rest assured that you behaved correctly.

Julian

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

Where I fly controllers sometimes use the abbreviation "November 123"
instead of the type, perhaps when they don't know the type. Sounds like that
might have been what you were getting. My understanding is that this is
considered acceptable though I always respond with my type even if they say
November.

I listen real close anytime I hear something that sounds like my callsign.
I'm 4955D and hear 5DD, 45D, 95D, etc all the time, often the second or
third time I correct them. Use the radio more often and you get a sense of
when they're calling you. If in doubt, wait a sec and ask, "Hey approach,
you calling Archer 511?"

Learn from the duck and let the water roll off your back. Maybe the
controller's wife read him the riot act on his way out the door that day and
he was just waiting for someone to tee off on. God knows they screw up
plenty often. If I ripped into them every time they flew me through the
localizer, etc. I'd get hoarse real fast. Getting nipped by ATC happens from
time to time; so long as their transmission doesn't end with a phone number,
I don't let it get to me. Some controllers are awesome, some are assholes,
and all are human.

-cwk.

When in doubt, ask. Rough estimate, I have been called by the wrong
type/callsign a gazillion times (corrected for inflation) and spoke up every
time. The consequences of making assumptions are too dire to do anything
else. I know that pilots get beat over the head with "be brief," "be
concise," "use correct terminology" to the point where they think long and
hard before grabbing the mike, but there are times when you have to bite the
bullet and ask questions/advise controllers using plain language.

If the controller is having a bad day, so be it. You cover your butt and
forget about his.

Bob Gardner


"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

You sure you weren't flying around Lawrenceville, GA? :-)

Sounds like some controllers could use a little training, at the very least.

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:

Really? Sure didn't sound that way to me.

[...]
I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

Sure, you could have been more proactive about checking on the call. But
the controller sure seemed to be discouraging that kind of behavior. I
don't think you can be blamed for trying to avoid yet another confrontation
with someone having a bad day.

Rarely, I have similar incidents. The most recent was at least a year ago,
when a controller accused me of transmitting the wrong tailnumber. As if
I'd forget the tailnumber of the airplane I have owned for ten years. She
was really peeved about it, but I figured that if she really wanted to make
a stink, the facts would be recorded somewhere. It sure wasn't worth
spending any time on frequency trying to argue about it.

Basically, my primary priority is to operate the airplane in a safe and
efficient manner. In VFR conditions, it's impossible for a controller to
screw that up for me unless I let them, and even in IFR conditions I can do
a pretty good job of managing the risk. Getting sucked into an irrelevant
"yes you did, no you didn't" argument on the radio is a great way to get
distracted from Job #1.

Frankly, I think you handled your situation about as well as anyone could be
expected to. You wouldn't have accomplished anything by trying to correct
or inform the controller on the radio. It sounds as though you basically
flew the airplane, kept yourself out of any big blow-ups, and completed the
flight safely. Which is what you're supposed to do.

Pete

reminds me of a flight a couple of weeks ago.. bringing in an airplane to
the local "in town" airport to get repairs... the controller never got the
call sign correct... Piper Pawnee, was anything but.. and transposing the
numbers and wrong alpha.. 11Z, 11V, Cessna... I had a good chuckle with
Ground Control as I taxied in.

of course.. this last week, bringing it in again... I found there is a
Cessna 11V stationed on the field... and of course I'm in Piper Pawnee 11Z..
and of course.. this time.. a different controller was on the ball and kept
it straight... only to have the real 11V answer up a call to me.. 11Z...

of course.. the is the same aircraft that landed behind me.. and nearly ran
me over in his hurry to get to the tie downs... cutting through a hanger row
instead of just playing follow the leader (cutting through hanger rows that
you do not have a hanger in is a no no).. plus his high taxi speed.. he met
me at the other end.. tires sliding to a stop before his prop hit my
wingtip...

I went and had a chat with the flight school that he rented from while he
tied down.. I would have spoken to him directly but he had two 10yr old kids
with him that did not need to hear a ranting pilot about near accidents and
improper taxi procedures.

BT

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

Hi Bob;

You sound good to go to me. Try not to let yourself become intimidated in
heavy traffic. It's easy enough to do when things are coming at you verbally
at mach 3 and the controllers are a bit "overworked" :-)
What I've always done if the controllers are busy and a radio call comes
through during heavy volume traffic that I think is for me but could be
ambitious; is that I just wait for the right moment (a break in mike
activity) and simply ask in plain language if the call was for me. It's
better to make the extra call and clarify than to take a chance on an action
that might have been meant for someone else. After all has been said on it,
the controllers will appreciate you asking rather than waiting because you
were intimidated.
I think a lot of pilots get all wrapped up in constantly using proper
phraseology instead of going for clarification when these ambiguities crop
up from time to time in heavy traffic. Not that proper radio procedure isn't
important, but it's just that sometimes clarification in plain English will
suffice.
Actually, in fifty years of flying, I can't honestly say that I ever
remember having a controller flip out on me for laying a clarification out
there in plain English.
Dudley



"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:

I was flying into OSU airport at Columbus, OH on Friday. I contacted
Columbus approach at the appropriate time, was given a squawk, and
continued
on inbound for OSU. The controller tried to call traffic for "Archer 411"
a
couple of times, so I asked if he was calling "Archer 44511". He seemed
exasperated, but gave me traffic, which I immediately spotted and
announced
that "511 has traffic". I'm not the greatest on the radio in controlled
airspace, but was by myself, and handling things pretty well. I next
heard
a call for "Brsst 511". I heard the call, but thought that there must be
someone else in the area with a similar call sign, since it sounded
nothing
like "Archer" or "Cherokee" (which we Archer pilots also get a lot). I
did
start listening even more carefully, but did not ask him if the call was
for
me, probably partly because of his reaction when I questioned him earlier
when he got my call sign wrong. Again he called the same aircraft, which
sounded almost like "Bravo 511". I decided that this could not be for me,
although I did hear no acknowledgement of the call. He made a third call
to
"Bravo 511" telling them to "Squawk 1200, contact OSU tower on 118.8."
Again I hesitated, thinking that while this might be for me, I'd never
having been told to squawk VFR at this point. I was about to ask him if
these calls were for me when he then called "Archer 511, are you still
with
me?", to which I replied "Affirmative, 511." At this point he really
reamed
me out, saying "I know it's spring, and you haven't been flying all
winter,
but you really need to pay attention. I've called you three times, and
it's
really busy down here.", or words to that effect. I replied that I had
been
listening very carefully, but he repeated his tirade again about it being
spring and that I needed to concentrate. He then repeated the last call
about squawking 1200 and contacting the tower. Not wanting to tie up the
frequency any more, and being more than a bit embarrassed, I complied and
completed the flight without further incidents.

I really wished that I could have pointed out that if he'd been a bit more
careful with his pronounciation, I would have acknowledged his first call
immediately, since I heard very clearly his final call about whether or
not
I was still with him. I was smarting about the whole thing for the rest
of
the evening. I realize that it is normal procedure for a controller not
to
abbreviate a call sign if there is more than one plane in his airspace
with
the same final three digits, but had he been even a bit more articulate in
saying "Archer", as he was in his final call, I would not have been
confused.

I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message
...
Mea culpa:
SNIP
I guess I learned that you need to ask immediately if you think a call
might
be for you, even though the call is a bit garbled. Is the aircraft type
an
official part of the call? Any other actions I should have taken?

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

After you hear a call you think might be for you, and you get that feeling
that they may have forgot about you, yes by all means ask if the call is for
you. Like he said, they may be a little tired and overloaded.

'bravo 511, squawk 1200 and contact state'

'columbus approach, was that call for (full call sign)?'

this does three things. if the guy lost your puck or forgot about you, it
puts your tail number back in his head. It also lets him know you are paying
attention. nothing gets a controller hot faster when he has pilots zooming
around a busy airspace that seem to be daydreaming. it also lets you know
for sure if he's talking to you or not.

don't be afraid, ask! that's their job.