Yak close call

Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're
fake. Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about.
Interesting observations though Dudley.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-Instrument Airplane

"To become a Jedi knight, you must master a single force. To become
a private pilot you must strive to master four of them"
- Rod Machado

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

"Kingfish" wrote in message
ps.com...

gatt wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2PvcG4Vmyw

Two observations he

1. He did better than that F-16 pilot that splatted his jet on the
ground
2. Whaddya think would happen if is insurance agent saw that clip?

Agent could care less long as he pays his premiums.

"Jack Allison" wrote in message
. ..
Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're fake.
Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about. Interesting
observations though Dudley.

I'll ask around and see if I can get a handle on it.
DH

"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


"Jack Allison" wrote in message
...
Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're fake.
Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about. Interesting
observations though Dudley.

I'll ask around and see if I can get a handle on it.
DH

If it is legit then there should be plenty of credible eyewitnesses.

Ron Lee

Not necessarily. There are several Yak demo pilots on the circuit and seeing
the paint on the clip isn't all that easy.
I have a friend who has an LOA for the Mig 21 who might recognize the clip
and be able to ID the airplane and driver...perhaps not. I sent him the clip
link tonight.
Looks real to me :-))
DH


"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


"Jack Allison" wrote in message
m...
Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're
fake.
Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about. Interesting
observations though Dudley.

I'll ask around and see if I can get a handle on it.
DH

If it is legit then there should be plenty of credible eyewitnesses.

Ron Lee

On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:54:30 -0800, Jack Allison
wrote:

Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're
fake. Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about.
Interesting observations though Dudley.

It's not a fake. Yes it was close. Yes, the pilot of that Yak
realizes that fact, and I've heard nothing to indicate that he hasn't
learned something as a result of that flight (I have no doubt he
considers himself very lucky and has learned from the incident).

Makes me want to bring up a comment made by an (forgotten to me
by now, sorry) airshow performer who opined there is no reason to
put an irreplaceable WW-II (or other) warbird at risk by performing
maneuvers that have you "pulling for your life" in order to complete
the manuever.... From an average airshow-goer's perspective,
what's the difference between a low-level pull-up to a split-ess with
a resulting half-cuban dive to the deck (such that, if everything goes
as planned) you live and airplane flies again, from a similar vertical
maneuver that is transformed to a positive G lateral pitch-out
recovery that doesn't have you "pulling for your life" to complete the
manuever. An example of the latter would be a high-G pitch-out with a
roll in excess of 90 degrees which has you recovering at something
less than a 90 degree down-line normal to the plane of the earth....
I've seen more than one high-time airshow warbird performer limit his
act to such maneuvers, and the thought that occurs to me is if the
picture/sight out the windscreen isn't what is expected, he now has
the option of (slightly) leveling the wings and pulling out of the
manuever instead of "pulling for his life" and hoping there is enough
airspace betwixt him and terra firma to stay out of the news /
newspapers....

Bela P. Havasreti

Bela P. Havasreti wrote:

Makes me want to bring up a comment made by an (forgotten to me
by now, sorry) airshow performer who opined there is no reason to
put an irreplaceable WW-II (or other) warbird at risk by performing
maneuvers that have you "pulling for your life" in order to complete
the manuever.... From an average airshow-goer's perspective,
what's the difference between a low-level pull-up to a split-ess with
a resulting half-cuban dive to the deck (such that, if everything goes
as planned) you live and airplane flies again, from a similar vertical
maneuver that is transformed to a positive G lateral pitch-out
recovery that doesn't have you "pulling for your life" to complete the
manuever. An example of the latter would be a high-G pitch-out with a
roll in excess of 90 degrees which has you recovering at something
less than a 90 degree down-line normal to the plane of the earth....
I've seen more than one high-time airshow warbird performer limit his
act to such maneuvers, and the thought that occurs to me is if the
picture/sight out the windscreen isn't what is expected, he now has
the option of (slightly) leveling the wings and pulling out of the
manuever instead of "pulling for his life" and hoping there is enough
airspace betwixt him and terra firma to stay out of the news /
newspapers....


Hmmphh. Reminds me of a thread from a while back where Peter D jumped
ugly all over me for expressing my opinion that irreplacable warbirds
shouldn't be risked in air races. I thought (and still do) that it'd be
just as exciting for the crowd to see Mustangs, Corsairs, etc doing
simple aero stuff like low passes/steep turns that wouldn't put the
plane at risk unlike the low altitude, high-G yank & bank that happens
in air races. Because I couldn't cite air race/airshow safety
statistics ad nauseum, my position was indefensible (sayeth he)
I think the guys that have the priviledge to own those planes have a
responsibility to preserve them as they are irreplaceable pieces of
history, but then again it's a free country...

Newps wrote:
Kingfish wrote:

2. Whaddya think would happen if is insurance agent saw that clip?

Nothing. There wasn't a loss.

Okay, I forgot to indicate my sarcasm mode on here...

My experience has been that the guys who have driven or flown similar
equipment are usually right, especially if they have learned to operate the
equipment near its limits, and the guys who have only watched are usually
wrong. A lot of the problem, for those including me, who have not "been
there" is the low resulotion and sampling rate of the video clips--with the
result that prior knowledge and expertise are required to know whether a
reasonable progression would fit the few data points presented.

Therefore, I will presume that Dudley is correct.

Peter
(Just my $0.02)




"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
Not necessarily. There are several Yak demo pilots on the circuit and
seeing
the paint on the clip isn't all that easy.
I have a friend who has an LOA for the Mig 21 who might recognize the clip
and be able to ID the airplane and driver...perhaps not. I sent him the
clip
link tonight.
Looks real to me :-))
DH


"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:


"Jack Allison" wrote in message
m...
Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a
fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're
fake.
Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about. Interesting
observations though Dudley.

I'll ask around and see if I can get a handle on it.
DH

If it is legit then there should be plenty of credible eyewitnesses.

Ron Lee

"Bela P. Havasreti" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 20:54:30 -0800, Jack Allison
wrote:

Yeah, it's hard to tell...and we may never know if it's real or a fake.
I've seen enough faked pictures that I tend to first suspect they're
fake. Movies though...this is the first one I've wondered about.
Interesting observations though Dudley.

It's not a fake. Yes it was close. Yes, the pilot of that Yak
realizes that fact, and I've heard nothing to indicate that he hasn't
learned something as a result of that flight (I have no doubt he
considers himself very lucky and has learned from the incident).

Makes me want to bring up a comment made by an (forgotten to me
by now, sorry) airshow performer who opined there is no reason to
put an irreplaceable WW-II (or other) warbird at risk by performing
maneuvers that have you "pulling for your life" in order to complete
the manuever.... From an average airshow-goer's perspective,
what's the difference between a low-level pull-up to a split-ess with
a resulting half-cuban dive to the deck (such that, if everything goes
as planned) you live and airplane flies again, from a similar vertical
maneuver that is transformed to a positive G lateral pitch-out
recovery that doesn't have you "pulling for your life" to complete the
manuever. An example of the latter would be a high-G pitch-out with a
roll in excess of 90 degrees which has you recovering at something
less than a 90 degree down-line normal to the plane of the earth....
I've seen more than one high-time airshow warbird performer limit his
act to such maneuvers, and the thought that occurs to me is if the
picture/sight out the windscreen isn't what is expected, he now has
the option of (slightly) leveling the wings and pulling out of the
manuever instead of "pulling for his life" and hoping there is enough
airspace betwixt him and terra firma to stay out of the news /
newspapers....

Bela P. Havasreti


I suppose that the issue of the average airshow-goer's perspective depends
upon how much the average airshow-goer really knows, or cares, about either
the aircraft or the pilots. I have my suspicions about both, but it is up
to the owners and pilots. They are the ones who will sustain any losses.

Peter