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Attitudes & Reality



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 30th 18, 05:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Default Attitudes & Reality

A post from another thread is timely - this being the start of the most active
part of the U.S. soaring season. Excerpted from another thread:

Beginning of Excerpt...

"There's a personality type that won't be convinced. I stopped to talk to a
pilot who was launching on a wave day at Minden. Foehn gap was dynamic,
tentacles moving and reaching in with drizzle earlier as I drove north on
Foothill to Minden airport. The gap, and a lone sucker hole about half way to
the Pinenuts, were the only holes through an otherwise solid deck at about
9,000'.

"He was the only one launching in his Carat. I'd asked him before about no
chute, said they were uncomfortable, I suggested he sit in my glider to see
what he thought - he countered, "You don't use a chute in your Mooney, do you?
Well, my Carat is certified too".

"He was relatively new to soaring, so I cautioned him about going above and
leaving the gap. He said he wouldn't do that as he didn't have O2 because of a
slow leak - he declined my offer to fill his tank. There was more, but to keep
it short . . . he died that day as I was eating lunch at the Taildragger. He
was a retired airline pilot, lot's of experience but no attitude gyro. Kept
his GPS off in the side pocket until he needed it. He went IMC. The debris
field was 5 miles long. My golden retriever and I would be the last to ever
greet him.

"Really good pilots don't need Flarm. Don't need a chute either. He was not
THAT good."

End of Excerpt...

I'm likely not the only RASident to remember this particular pilot from his
tenure-on/contributions-to RAS. I didn't know the man, or his background,
beyond what was self-revealed in his posts, but I remember certain aspects (as
they seemed to me) of his post-centric-personality triggered tiny flags of
concern in my noodle. Unsurprisingly to me, nothing from the excerpt above is
at odds with those now-ancient recollections. The flags all had to do with
what seemed-to-me to be "unwarranted certitude" relative to certain
safety-related opinions held by the poster. My never-verbalized take then, was
along the lines of: I hope your future PIC realities don't exceed your
"expressed certitudes." Reality always wins.

Soaring - everything - has risks. It's up to J. Pilot to intelligently
mitigate 'em. Apparently, the pilot in the cautionary tale above could have
done a better job of mitigating those related to his soaring "career."
Sometimes warning flags are raised in others' minds; sometimes not. Reason for
this post is to encourage more toward the "active awareness" portion of
reading pilots' brains, the *possibility* that their attitudes - and decisions
relating thereto - may have "quite direct, negative" influences upon their
flight outcomes. The trick - in my view - is to actively seek to bias "future
reality" in your favor as much as reasonably possible. What that motherhood
and apple pie statement means is (almost) entirely up to J. Pilot. FLARM,
transponder, parachute, ATC vs. Experimental certification, pure or
engine-assisted ship, XC, competition, wave or ridge or thermal-only
soaring... J. Pilot gets - and *needs* - to choose. Many an accident report
strongly suggests it DOESN'T go without saying, "Choose wisely."

Avoidable loss of life is always a tragedy in my view, regardless of the
proximity of the personal relationship.

Bob W.

P.S. For the record, if any reader's main takeaway from reading my opinions as
expressed in this post, is something along the lines of, "Man! This guy is
really good at second-guessing someone else's decisions," I'll regretfully
have to conclude my self-selected little safety sermon hasn't been entirely
successful! In any event have - safe - fun out there, everyone!!!

---
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  #2  
Old April 30th 18, 06:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 155
Default Attitudes & Reality

I read that same original post - it really made me ponder my flying........... after thinking I came to think that often times we as type A pilots, competitors, OLC types or just at 5,000 MSL floating around the airport types - we forget about the people connected to us. Maybe OTHERS are more important to protect than we are.

Maybe it is more impotent to have a Flarm to protect the other guy and his family. So if I am at Mifflin screaming down the ridge at 110 knots and a pilot without Flarm am I endangering the other guy coming at me at 110.

Maybe before I get into my glider or make a decision to "try something" I need to stop a second and remember my family and friends who pay the price if the something doesn't work.

Maybe if I hear a complaint about transponders being too expensive I should point out the 100+ people who could have their lives destroyed if I am tucked under a cloud invisible to the ATC when they are on a jet coming down to land on the way home from vacation.

I am NOT saying accidents can be avoided - or that we can not have risk in our lives. I am saying it is a good feeling to sleep at night believing you have done everything you can to avoid bad things from happening, especially to other people who were just innocent bystanders.

Thanks for the Post Bob W -

WH
  #3  
Old April 30th 18, 07:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 478
Default Attitudes & Reality

Add 'I'm safer because I have the latest gadgets' to the dangerous attitudes list.
  #4  
Old April 30th 18, 08:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 155
Default Attitudes & Reality

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Add 'I'm safer because I have the latest gadgets' to the dangerous attitudes list.


LOL

I am pretty sure that is what they said when they put breaks in the horseless carriages.

And I remember my dad telling me the same when they put those annoying seat belts in cars.

I can go on with those forever.

It is not about the latest gadgets nor the latest anything. It is about some one saying i have something that can save a life and some one else says "I do not care, it's just new, it's too expensive"

You are not safer because you have the newest anything - you are safer because you are always looking for what ever device, document, conversation.... picture helps you try to be safer.

The attitude that the column above suggests is not healthy is "I already have 2 eyeballs and that everything I need to be safe" - now that I would definetly add to the list

WH
  #5  
Old April 30th 18, 09:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 478
Default Attitudes & Reality

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 3:06:03 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 2:20:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Add 'I'm safer because I have the latest gadgets' to the dangerous attitudes list.


LOL

I am pretty sure that is what they said when they put breaks in the horseless carriages.

And I remember my dad telling me the same when they put those annoying seat belts in cars.

I can go on with those forever.

It is not about the latest gadgets nor the latest anything. It is about some one saying i have something that can save a life and some one else says "I do not care, it's just new, it's too expensive"

You are not safer because you have the newest anything - you are safer because you are always looking for what ever device, document, conversation..... picture helps you try to be safer.

The attitude that the column above suggests is not healthy is "I already have 2 eyeballs and that everything I need to be safe" - now that I would definetly add to the list

WH


Monkey brain says it is OK to spend a few more seconds on the flight computer without looking outside cause I have Flarm. Monkey brain believes I am a safe pilot cause I bought stuff, thus I can fly with less discipline. Fake rational human brain on the ground denies such behaviors.
  #6  
Old April 30th 18, 09:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 155
Default Attitudes & Reality

Monkey brain - Really......

It is attitude we are talking about. (I think) - My rational is based completely on what keeps other people affected by our behaviors safer.

Now if you want to make the argument that flying to cloud base in a glider with no transponder and no Flarm (many of us in IFR Airways) is safer than have either one or both - now that's what I would love to hear. and if you suggest we (as a group) do not do that....... than we are not having an honest discussion.

Just think about what you say to the family of the people on the Jet Blue flight that hit you while descending through the cloud that you were sitting under........ actually let's be real - the person making the excuse for you is not you, it is your wife/mother/dad..... because you are not there to tell them "sorry I didn't see you".

The text at the beginning of the thread was food for thought - so I thought - I merely added that some of the thought needs to be directed at the people we forget about while we are focused during the act of flying.

One of the main drivers to changed attitude is "Empathy" - when you hurt yourself, you are not the only one affected - sometime I forget this. That's all.

All I am saying is next time your at 6,000 MSL in your glider with only your 2 eyeballs to prevent the business jet from dropping out of the cloud onto your head - ponder the possible outcomes (1. nothing comes down, 2 jet comes down and misses you, 3 jet comes down and you get hurt, 4 everyone gets hurt) and how you justify each to ALL the people affected.

WH
  #7  
Old April 30th 18, 10:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Posts: 306
Default Attitudes & Reality

What ever happened to See and Avoid? Is ignorance bliss in aviation, too?

I flew three days last week in my ASW-19 and encountered a Piper Lance that wanted to circle around me as I was in a thermal - forcing me to abandon some good lift in order to keep him in sight, two corporate jets passing below me and not on the local airways or approach corridors, a Piper that flew right by me and never made any adjustment to his course, several GA airplanes and a Robinson blowing through the local traffic pattern without so much as a radio call, and one Piper blindly blasting right through the center of a cu I was working next to - presumably so he could log .1 instrument time. I seriously doubt the cloudbuster was on an instrument flight plan because we have verified that we are clearly visible as primary targets on ATC radar and they propbably would have alerted them to my location.

In the past year, on behalf of our club, I've been working behind the scenes on small changes that could have significant effects on logal GA awareness of our glider ops. It took eight months to process, but I was able to get the glider-in-tow symbol added to the local sectional and the AFD updated in hopes that it would remind some percentage of pilots to look out for us.. We have a great relationship with the local tower and they put a message about glider ops on ATIS whenever we are up. The local flight schools are also all aware of our location and operations. With everything we've done to make ourselves conspicuous, the weekend warriors and corporate pilots appear to be flying heads down. It's time for another information campaign and, perhaps, some posters for the FBO/Flightschool bulletin boards. That, and I plan to leverage the TCAS system the corporate jets all have via my own transponder.

It's a target rich environment out there and I've been waiting to install a Mode-C transponder during my upcoming annual. The time has come and now I find I need to educate myself on Flarm and other collision alert options. Balancing expense and safety is always a delicate exercise, and the cost of a Flarm doesn't help that decision.

Paul A.
  #8  
Old April 30th 18, 11:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul Agnew
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Posts: 306
Default Attitudes & Reality

What ever happened to See and Avoid? Is ignorance bliss in aviation, too?

I flew three days last week in my ASW-19 and encountered a Piper Lance that wanted to circle around me as I was in a thermal - forcing me to abandon some good lift in order to keep him in sight, two corporate jets passing below me and not on the local airways or approach corridors, a Piper that flew right by me and never made any adjustment to his course, several GA airplanes and a Robinson blowing through the local traffic pattern without so much as a radio call, and one Piper blindly blasting right through the center of a cu I was working next to - presumably so he could log .1 instrument time. I seriously doubt the cloudbuster was on an instrument flight plan because we have verified that we are clearly visible as primary targets on ATC radar and they probably would have alerted them to my location.

In the past year, on behalf of our club, I've been working behind the scenes on small changes that could have significant effects on local GA awareness of our glider ops. It took eight months to process, but I was able to get the glider-in-tow symbol added to the local sectional and the AFD updated in hopes that it would remind some percentage of pilots to look out for us.. We have a great relationship with the local tower and they put a message about glider ops on ATIS whenever we are up. The local flight schools are also all aware of our location and operations. With everything we've done to make ourselves conspicuous, the weekend warriors and corporate pilots appear to be flying heads down. It's time for another information campaign and, perhaps, some posters for the FBO/Flightschool bulletin boards. That, and I plan to leverage the TCAS system the corporate jets all have via my own transponder.

It's a target rich environment out there and I've been waiting to install a Mode-C transponder during my upcoming annual. The time has come and now I find I need to educate myself on Flarm and other collision alert options. Balancing expense and safety is always a delicate exercise, and the cost of a Flarm doesn't help that decision.

Paul A.
  #9  
Old May 1st 18, 12:02 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
jfitch
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Posts: 1,134
Default Attitudes & Reality

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 3:07:54 PM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
What ever happened to See and Avoid? Is ignorance bliss in aviation, too?

I flew three days last week in my ASW-19 and encountered a Piper Lance that wanted to circle around me as I was in a thermal - forcing me to abandon some good lift in order to keep him in sight, two corporate jets passing below me and not on the local airways or approach corridors, a Piper that flew right by me and never made any adjustment to his course, several GA airplanes and a Robinson blowing through the local traffic pattern without so much as a radio call, and one Piper blindly blasting right through the center of a cu I was working next to - presumably so he could log .1 instrument time. I seriously doubt the cloudbuster was on an instrument flight plan because we have verified that we are clearly visible as primary targets on ATC radar and they probably would have alerted them to my location.

In the past year, on behalf of our club, I've been working behind the scenes on small changes that could have significant effects on local GA awareness of our glider ops. It took eight months to process, but I was able to get the glider-in-tow symbol added to the local sectional and the AFD updated in hopes that it would remind some percentage of pilots to look out for us. We have a great relationship with the local tower and they put a message about glider ops on ATIS whenever we are up. The local flight schools are also all aware of our location and operations. With everything we've done to make ourselves conspicuous, the weekend warriors and corporate pilots appear to be flying heads down. It's time for another information campaign and, perhaps, some posters for the FBO/Flightschool bulletin boards. That, and I plan to leverage the TCAS system the corporate jets all have via my own transponder.

It's a target rich environment out there and I've been waiting to install a Mode-C transponder during my upcoming annual. The time has come and now I find I need to educate myself on Flarm and other collision alert options. Balancing expense and safety is always a delicate exercise, and the cost of a Flarm doesn't help that decision.

Paul A.


See and Avoid is great for those things that you see. When you get ADS-B in and/or Flarm installed, you will realize just how much you haven't seen. That's in a slow moving glider with big windows. Now imagine it from the standpoint of a jet with small windows moving at 4x your speed, looking for a glider which is nearly invisible head on.

To be really honest, the main thing that is keeping us from bumping into things is the Big Sky theory. Broadcasting your position via Flarm or ADS-B out takes zero pilot time or skill, and might just warn that heads down jet jockey or oncoming ridge soaring glider around the corner that you are there.
  #10  
Old May 1st 18, 12:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Posts: 601
Default Attitudes & Reality

On Monday, April 30, 2018 at 3:07:54 PM UTC-7, Paul Agnew wrote:
What ever happened to See and Avoid? Is ignorance bliss in aviation, too?

I flew three days last week in my ASW-19 and encountered a Piper Lance that wanted to circle around me as I was in a thermal - forcing me to abandon some good lift in order to keep him in sight, two corporate jets passing below me and not on the local airways or approach corridors, a Piper that flew right by me and never made any adjustment to his course, several GA airplanes and a Robinson blowing through the local traffic pattern without so much as a radio call, and one Piper blindly blasting right through the center of a cu I was working next to - presumably so he could log .1 instrument time. I seriously doubt the cloudbuster was on an instrument flight plan because we have verified that we are clearly visible as primary targets on ATC radar and they probably would have alerted them to my location.

In the past year, on behalf of our club, I've been working behind the scenes on small changes that could have significant effects on local GA awareness of our glider ops. It took eight months to process, but I was able to get the glider-in-tow symbol added to the local sectional and the AFD updated in hopes that it would remind some percentage of pilots to look out for us. We have a great relationship with the local tower and they put a message about glider ops on ATIS whenever we are up. The local flight schools are also all aware of our location and operations. With everything we've done to make ourselves conspicuous, the weekend warriors and corporate pilots appear to be flying heads down. It's time for another information campaign and, perhaps, some posters for the FBO/Flightschool bulletin boards. That, and I plan to leverage the TCAS system the corporate jets all have via my own transponder.

It's a target rich environment out there and I've been waiting to install a Mode-C transponder during my upcoming annual. The time has come and now I find I need to educate myself on Flarm and other collision alert options. Balancing expense and safety is always a delicate exercise, and the cost of a Flarm doesn't help that decision.

Paul A.


Paul, I am glad you finally decided to install a transponder. You described more encounters in 3 days than I had in 20 years and over 6000 hours of flying in some of the most busiest areas (Bay Area and Reno area). Could it be because I am flying with transponders since day one, or just a coincidence?
See and avoid barely works, and mostly in traffic patterns. Otherwise, you only see the traffic which is not on collision course.


To Greg, are you for real? If so, all I can do is facepalm and hoping that our flights will never cross paths.

Ramy


 




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