Region 9 day 1 Std Class

"Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course."

12 went out on course, 3 finished.





On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:
On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:

On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?







Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.







Andy (GY)



This is a good question posted by Andy.



Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.

Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.

Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.

Only 1 in Standard Class departed.



The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.



So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.



One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".



There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!



The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?

At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.



I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons

[ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.

I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.



Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!

Sorry to bring it up.



What is wrong with being able to drop a day?



I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.

And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.



Nick Kennedy

[ T ]

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 6:24:58 PM UTC-6, glen wrote:
On Friday, June 20, 2014 9:40:44 AM UTC-4, Andy wrote:

On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?







Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.







Andy (GY)



What about this?

Glen





11.4.6 ‡ â€* Worst Day Score Adjustment

If this is declared to be in effect, an adjustment is calculated and added to the cumulative score

of each entrant

Ah, a sense of humor.

On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:10:42 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:

On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:



On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?















Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.















Andy (GY)







This is a good question posted by Andy.







Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.



Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.



Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.



Only 1 in Standard Class departed.







The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.







So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.







One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".







There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!







The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?



At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.







I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons



[ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.



I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.







Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!



Sorry to bring it up.







What is wrong with being able to drop a day?







I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.



And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.







Nick Kennedy



[ T ]



One problem with a good idea. Drop a low score and you could cancel a marginal contest with the minimum contest days, making it invalid.

As written, the rule comes into effect after there are enough days to avoid this problem.
UH

On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:45:16 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Monday, June 23, 2014 12:10:42 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:

On Sunday, June 22, 2014 5:10:54 PM UTC-6, Nick Kennedy wrote:



On Friday, June 20, 2014 7:40:44 AM UTC-6, Andy wrote:







On a day when all but one competitor did not attempt the task, apparently due to thunderstorms, one competitor completes it and takes 1000 points. The contest is pretty much over. Are we rewarding the right behavior? Why wasn't the day devalued?































Comments invited especially from the Std class pilots and also the rules guys.































Andy (GY)















This is a good question posted by Andy.















Several Moriarty based local heavy hitters did not start.







Looking at the score sheet only 3 out of 13 Sports Class pilots went out on course.







Only 4 of 7 15 meter guys.







Only 1 in Standard Class departed.















The nasty weather + the high desert boondock terrain was clearly a major issue.















So with the scoring system, as we have it, for the majority of the field, on the 1st day of the contest, it was over. One, only one very brave Standard guy goes and hes gets a 1000 pts, 2nd place zero......bizarre to say the least.















One way to address this issue is to be able to "drop your lowest score".















There is a helluva lot of luck in gliding contests. A lot of skill, but the bad luck factor is such a drag. ask me sometime how I know!















The last day at the 18 Meter Nats in Minden, 3 heavy hitters had some bad luck on the last day did not complete the task and got creamed in the scores as a result. Is this what we want?







At least it happened to them on the last day not the first.















I want to be able to Go For It, when it is reasonable and good conditions are present. Being able to fly harder, knowing that if I land out, I'm not out of the contest. As it is now if you land out, or don't score for weather reasons







[ like huge t-storms, lightning, rain, huge wind events etc etc], electrical failure, o2 failure, etc ONE DAY in a contest you are done.







I want to be able to stand down on a dangerous day and not feel like I have to put it all on the line for some contest.















Then there is the side issue of having to compete on the same task/score sheet with guys with engines! Weather goes to pot and Pop! out comes a propeller!







Sorry to bring it up.















What is wrong with being able to drop a day?















I think it would make contests more fun and and relaxing; that is what 99% of my friends are into it for. Fun.







And it would at least partially address the bizarre scoring debacle that happened in Moriarty.















Nick Kennedy







[ T ]







One problem with a good idea. Drop a low score and you could cancel a marginal contest with the minimum contest days, making it invalid.



As written, the rule comes into effect after there are enough days to avoid this problem.

UH

Why not then?

My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety imporovmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year..
So why don't we use it? Because the rc doesn't shove this sort of thing down pilots throats. It's been an available option at regionals for years but with a few exceptions (Ionia ) nobody has tried it. So, if this sounds like a good idea, you the pilot need to ask your cd to try it! Chances are, the cd isn't even aware it exists. Things like this need to be tried at regionals for a few years, gain acceptance, then move

(Hit send by accident) to nationals once they are well accepted
John cochrane BB

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:01:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:
My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety improvmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year.

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:
On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:01:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:

My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety improvmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year.



So why don't we use it? Because the rc doesn't shove this sort of thing down pilots throats. It's been an available option at regionals for years but with a few exceptions (Ionia ) nobody has tried it. So, if this sounds like a good idea, you the pilot need to ask your cd to try it! Chances are, the cd isn't even aware it exists. Things like this need to be tried at regionals for a few years, gain acceptance, then move



Observation, and the yin and the yang of it-



How would this have really helped the Moriarty Std Class Pilots that decided not to fly the task(this situation)? It would have made no difference in the outcome. Dropping a day would have. In either case an excellent pilot would have been effectively penalized for a great flight while rewarding others for not flying, and I do not think this is the intent of a contest requiring aggregate skills. Also, why should a pilot get any points for not flying-for any reason? It is easy to see the intent of the WDSA rule, but I do not think it is the correct solution.

The other option is to have the CD and advisors evaluate the situation and not open a task that does not meet accepted criteria for being both fair and safe.
It is a judgement call, but has been used countless times to avoid these kinds of problems.
UH

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 5:08:47 PM UTC-6, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:02:13 AM UTC-4, Mike C wrote:

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 6:01:23 AM UTC-6, wrote:



My view: we have a really nice drop-a-day scoring provision in the rules. John good gets major credit for working out all the bugs. It would address situations such as this one. In my view it would also bring safety improvmements. Faced with a land out or a storm or other event it would be much easier for pilots to make the rit decision and not soldier on as we now do. Most of all I think it would make contests more fun. If you screw up or land out on the first day, it's no longer hopeless and really wait for next year.







So why don't we use it? Because the rc doesn't shove this sort of thing down pilots throats. It's been an available option at regionals for years but with a few exceptions (Ionia ) nobody has tried it. So, if this sounds like a good idea, you the pilot need to ask your cd to try it! Chances are, the cd isn't even aware it exists. Things like this need to be tried at regionals for a few years, gain acceptance, then move







Observation, and the yin and the yang of it-







How would this have really helped the Moriarty Std Class Pilots that decided not to fly the task(this situation)? It would have made no difference in the outcome. Dropping a day would have. In either case an excellent pilot would have been effectively penalized for a great flight while rewarding others for not flying, and I do not think this is the intent of a contest requiring aggregate skills. Also, why should a pilot get any points for not flying-for any reason? It is easy to see the intent of the WDSA rule, but I do not think it is the correct solution.



The other option is to have the CD and advisors evaluate the situation and not open a task that does not meet accepted criteria for being both fair and safe.

It is a judgement call, but has been used countless times to avoid these kinds of problems.

UH

Of course.