Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote:

It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it
was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she
actually did in the cockpit.

Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the
flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He
might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth
shattering for sure.

All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down
to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on
her role in the completion of this flight.

Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.

On Jun 18, 12:13*am, Wingnut wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote:
It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it
was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she
actually did in the cockpit.

Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the
flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He
might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth
shattering for sure.

All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down
to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on
her role in the completion of this flight.

Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.

It's an interesting hypothesis for sure, and such a scenario has
indeed been the subject of many discussions over time. The general
consensus in the area where I work in human factors in aircraft
accidents is that the result of such an attempt would depend on many
factors, a great many of these factors over and above the "experience"
factor of the newbie involved.
Makes a great movie though :-))
DH

Wingnut writes:

Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.

Not necessarily. In a situation like that, what would be most important would
be her ability to follow instructions precisely, and the availability of a
qualified pilot to guide her over the radio. These two things would override
any piloting experience she might have.

There are two myths that need to be dispelled, namely (1) the notion that
anyone with any piloting experience necessarily will do a better job of
getting an plane home safely in an emergency, and (2) the notion that someone
without any piloting experience would necessarily crash the airplane.

The skill needed when both pilots get sick from the fish is an ability to do
as one is told, and this is independent of piloting experience. Additionally,
a qualified pilot needs to be available on the radio (preferably an
instructor). An experienced Cessna pilot without help over the radio will
probably get in some possibly fatal trouble, and conversely a non-pilot with
expert help over the radio may well be able to land the airplane safely.

This has a great deal to do with automation and the differences between
airliners and small aircraft.

You would definitely want to avoid someone who might be tempted to take
initiatives rather than just follow instructions--and for this reason, putting
a Cessna pilot in the left seat might actually be a worse idea than putting a
complete non-pilot in that seat. The non-pilot might be more likely to just do
as he is told, which is exactly what you need.

On Jun 18, 12:13*am, Wingnut wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jun 2010 14:10:01 -0700, Dudley Henriques wrote:
It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it
was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she
actually did in the cockpit.

Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the
flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He
might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth
shattering for sure.

All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down
to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on
her role in the completion of this flight.

Consider who would have been landing the plane if something had caused
the pilot to also conk out, though. Then her prior flight experience
would have become quite relevant indeed.

Actually her prior light plane flying experience could be a negative
believe it or not. Her ability to follow explicit instruction
resulting in any control input involves an aircraft time
line requiring a response to input correction involving an input to
initiate and an input to stop the response. Assuming a requirement for
a correct result each and every time a control input was initiated,
prior experience in a light plane enters the element of expectation
into the input equation for the newbie. In other words, the difference
between the actual result of any manual control input to a 767's
controls in any and all axis, especially when coupled, roll/
yaw.......pitch/roll etc.....by a newbie needing the result to be
right the first time tried from verbal instruction with the newbie
having an expected response based on a totally different airplane
places an EXTRA element into the equation that could easily extend/
alter/ or change the required response time line.
This scenario could easily make the correction time line longer than
it might have been had no expectation of aircraft response been
involved.
All this is just a fancy way of saying that prior experience in a
Cessna 150 might not matter in a 767 being landed by a newbie
following detailed instruction.
DH

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
...
On Jun 17, 2:44 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
GrtArtiste writes:
Given this set of circumstances, what types of assistance would a
commercial-rated pilot be able to offer assuming she is not rated on
this type aircraft? I would guess-communications with ATC primarily.
What else?

The same things any non-pilot could do: move levers and buttons when the
captain asks her two, read checklists, communicate with ATC, etc. It helps
a
bit if she has piloting experience, but that doesn't mean that she will be
doing anything that _requires_ piloting experience.

This is absolutely correct. At no time was this attendant actually
flying this aircraft. She came up front and sat down in the right seat
acting as an extra set of hands to select, push, pull, and turn, any
and all switches and levers as asked for by the Captain. She acted as
an "assistant" and that's all.
Not to take anything away from this lady who performed as asked to
perform under trying circumstances, and indeed she personally appeared
on national TV this morning to "set straight" all the hype being
presented about her acting in any other capacity than that I have
stated above.
It helped certainly that this nice lady had flying experience but it
was by NO MEANS essential to what she was asked to do or what she
actually did in the cockpit.
Had the Captain opted to, he most certainly could have completed the
flight to a safe completion from the left seat without assistance. He
might have had to extend his reach a bit at times, but nothing earth
shattering for sure.
All in all, this was a class crew and they did a class job, right down
to the stew who very classily and politely deflated the media hype on
her role in the completion of this flight.
Dudley Henriques


I find it interesting that no one has raised the subject of CRM. This seems
to be a great example of the PIC assembling and using effectively all the
resources available. I am confident that the PIC would have received
extensive CRM training which probably included dealing with similar
situations. I suspect that the PIC provided the FA clear direction as to
the tasks she was required to perform as well as carefully monitoring her
performance in the same way that the regular co-pilot would be.

The entire crew deserves a 'nicely done'.

Happy landings,

"Clarence do we have clearance?" wrote in message
...
Maybe he shouldn't have had the fish. Thank goodness Karen Black was
working the flight!

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...and-plane.html
Flight attendant helps pilot land plane
June 15, 2010

A flight attendant who has a pilot's license replaced an ill first officer
during a landing at O'Hare International Airport, officials said today.

The co-pilot of an American Airlines plane that departed San Francisco on
Monday fell sick en route to Chicago, said American spokeswoman Mary
Frances Fagan.

"He was unable to continue his duties and he moved to the passenger
cabin," Fagan said, adding that the flight's captain checked to see
whether any off-duty airline pilots were on board the flight.

A female flight attendant advised the captain that she is a commercial
pilot and the captain asked her to sit in the right-hand seat in the
cockpit, Fagan said.

"The flight attendant became the first officer on landing," she said. "The
cockpit crew did an outstanding job handling the situation."

The flight attendant helped the captain by reading off check list of
procedures and she handled other tasks, in addition to providing a second
set of eyes in the cockpit, Fagan said.

The plane, a Boeing 767 with 225 passengers and seven crew members on
board, arrived at O'Hare at 4:24 p.m. Monday. The landing was normal,
officials said.

The condition of the ill first officer was not serious, officials said. He
was met on the ground at O'Hare by paramedics and transported to a local
hospital, where he was treated and released.

The first officer was based in Chicago. He was resting on Tuesday,
officials said.


She must not have had the fish...

On Jun 16, 9:19*am, "Clarence do we have clearance?"
wrote:
Maybe he shouldn't have had the fish. *Thank goodness Karen Black was
working the flight!

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...dant-helps-pil...
Flight attendant helps pilot land plane
June 15, 2010

A flight attendant who has a pilot's license replaced an ill first officer
during a landing at O'Hare International Airport, officials said today.

The co-pilot of an American Airlines plane that departed San Francisco on
Monday fell sick en route to Chicago, said American spokeswoman Mary
Frances Fagan.

"He was unable to continue his duties and he moved to the passenger cabin,"
Fagan said, adding that the flight's captain checked to see whether any
off-duty airline pilots were on board the flight.

A female flight attendant advised the captain that she is a commercial
pilot and the captain asked her to sit in the right-hand seat in the
cockpit, Fagan said.

"The flight attendant became the first officer on landing," she said. "The
cockpit crew did an outstanding job handling the situation."

The flight attendant helped the captain by reading off check list of
procedures and she handled other tasks, in addition to providing a second
set of eyes in the cockpit, Fagan said.

The plane, a Boeing 767 with 225 passengers and seven crew members on
board, arrived at O'Hare at 4:24 p.m. Monday. The landing was normal,
officials said.

The condition of the ill first officer was not serious, officials said. He
was met on the ground at O'Hare by paramedics and transported to a local
hospital, where he was treated and released.

The first officer was based in Chicago. He was resting on Tuesday,
officials said.

How 'bout them emergency brakes!