World Contest - 15m class

Is the JS-3 using a new wing, or are they just chopping off the existing wing inboard of 15m, and using new 15m tips?

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 7:48:10 PM UTC+3, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Loved flying the Janus and a Nimbus4D (looks like the same cockpit), but SH left much performance on the table by not updating their fuselage, I think the ASH-25 outsold the Nimbus 4D three to one and the ASH-25 was just a better performing glider, having placed as high at the podium in World Gliding Championships.

As for SH and their adherence to a 1970's fuselage design with a side hinged canopy... I has the fuselage really been updated since the first ventus C? I know they updated the tail feathers from the Vents 2C to the Ventus 2CX, not sure why they could not have designed it right the first time!!! I think it was 8 weeks after I got my new Ventus 2C licensed that SH announced they had finished the design and were now offering the Ventus 2CX. After waiting two years receive a glider that SH knew needed more design work before it was released, I was unhappy. Plus it arrived with x kilograms of weight in the tail when it should have had x pounds, that's right 2.2 times the tail weight it should have had. If you haven't flown a glider past the aft limits, I can tell you it is very squirrly, had difficultly keeping the airspeed between 45 and 75 knots.

Does anyone actually like the side hinged canopy?


On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 10:30:39 AM UTC-8, Bruce Hoult wrote:

The same canopy fits a mid 1970s Janus and a modern Duo Discus!

I've seldom flown anything else!

Blanik -- side hinged
Twin Astir -- 2x side hinged
Janus -- side hinged
Duo -- side hinged
DG1000 -- 2x side hinged

PW5 -- front hinged
Club Libelle -- rear hinged
ASK21 -- 1x front hinged, 1x rear hinged

Ka6 and Std Libelle -- totally unhinged

Must be late in Moscow! Side hinged is a pain when assembly or if you take two steps away from canopy and there is a wind gust.


On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 1:55:39 PM UTC-8, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 7:48:10 PM UTC+3, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Loved flying the Janus and a Nimbus4D (looks like the same cockpit), but SH left much performance on the table by not updating their fuselage, I think the ASH-25 outsold the Nimbus 4D three to one and the ASH-25 was just a better performing glider, having placed as high at the podium in World Gliding Championships.

As for SH and their adherence to a 1970's fuselage design with a side hinged canopy... I has the fuselage really been updated since the first ventus C? I know they updated the tail feathers from the Vents 2C to the Ventus 2CX, not sure why they could not have designed it right the first time!!! I think it was 8 weeks after I got my new Ventus 2C licensed that SH announced they had finished the design and were now offering the Ventus 2CX. After waiting two years receive a glider that SH knew needed more design work before it was released, I was unhappy. Plus it arrived with x kilograms of weight in the tail when it should have had x pounds, that's right 2.2 times the tail weight it should have had. If you haven't flown a glider past the aft limits, I can tell you it is very squirrly, had difficultly keeping the airspeed between 45 and 75 knots.

Does anyone actually like the side hinged canopy?


On Wednesday, November 23, 2016 at 10:30:39 AM UTC-8, Bruce Hoult wrote:

The same canopy fits a mid 1970s Janus and a modern Duo Discus!

I've seldom flown anything else!

Blanik -- side hinged
Twin Astir -- 2x side hinged
Janus -- side hinged
Duo -- side hinged
DG1000 -- 2x side hinged

PW5 -- front hinged
Club Libelle -- rear hinged
ASK21 -- 1x front hinged, 1x rear hinged

Ka6 and Std Libelle -- totally unhinged

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 10:21:23 AM UTC-7, Tom Kelley #711 wrote:
On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 8:55:24 AM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
The Ventus 3 is not represented yet on the Schempp Hirth website...

https://www.schempp-hirth.com/en.html

Interesting.

The general design brief for the V3 (wing only) is, therefore, not well marketed (or even formally published) although I suspect that a purchase of the SH presentation from the recent SSA convention from 'Wings and Wheels' would discuss the V3 design brief in great detail. Take a look at DVD #14 he http://wingsandwheels.com/pilot-supp...ntion-dvd.html

https://www.schempp-hirth.com/en.html

It essentially goes like this: "by studying flight traces (glide/climb ratios, speeds, climb rates, etc) from actual competition flights, they believe the current airfoils are not optimized (essentially to thick, too high drag) so the adopted a new airfoil (thinner essentially) optimized for better high speed glide performance and (likely) slightly less performance in climb. In other words they cite that competition gliders are flying faster than optimum (for their current V2 airfoils) and climbing less that predicted. So they have built a new wing optimized for the speeds and climb percentages that are actually being flown in real competition."

This design strategy is well known among the SH community and is the basis for the arguement that the V3 will have exceptional performance in competition. It has also resulted in a large book of pre-orders.

We shall see the results of the new wing shortly.

Sean

Well, the V3 has already been raced. UK 18 Meter Nationals Aug 20 thru 26th.

Steve Jones is one of the best.
I cut this link(may not work) but full results are here.
http://www.soaringspot.com/en_gb/tibenham-18m-.

1 565 Brian Birlison ASG 29E 1,918
2 80 Andy Davis JS1c Evo 1,915
3 E1 Russell Cheetham JS1c Evo 1,822
4 E11 Stephen Ell ASG 29E 1,812
5 10 Gary Stingemore ASG 29E 1,806
6 N1 Peter Harvey JS1c 1,763
7 601 Tim Jenkinson ASG29E 1,752
8 9 Rory Ellis ASG 29E 1,695
9 3V Steve Jones Ventus 3 1,681
10 XS Richard Browne JS1c 1,629

Bet. Tom #711.

A Ventus 3T competed at the FAI Sailplane Grand Prix in Musbach Germany in August 2016. The Ventus 3T, flown by Mario Kiessling, finished in 3rd place out of 19 competitors. Here's the link to the results:

http://www.sgp.aero/germany2016/resu...ontestID=16082

We should know even more on the performance of the Ventus 3 after the WGCs in Benalla in January. There will be 7 Ventus 3s competing in the 18 meter class...Thanks!

Yep. That was a much stronger contest. The other contest was weaker (like east coast USA) and it clearly struggled.

The 29 won both events. Hmmm. One trick pony?

On Friday, November 25, 2016 at 9:11:36 AM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
Yep. That was a much stronger contest. The other contest was weaker (like east coast USA) and it clearly struggled.

The 29 won both events. Hmmm. One trick pony?

Sean - "Roger.." It will be interesting to see how it all works out in Benalla. Your being there competing in the 18m will actually be tremendous as you will be able to see first hand how the Ventus 3 fares against 29s, JS-1s, etc, etc. I know you will be very busy during the contest, but hopefully when you get back you can post your impressions and observations! Thanks - Renny

let's not forget that the pilot is a big factor in all of this and that he could have f@#$%'d up... it's not like we haven't all done that...

Also, in speaking with those guys at the convention they mentioned not wanting to race the V3 because of the temporary restricted VNE imposed because of certification stuff. not sure if that was a factor or not, but they at least made comments about skewed perception. I am interested to see how it performs as well.

On Thursday, November 24, 2016 at 12:56:29 PM UTC-5, Sean wrote:
Interesting Tom. Schempp Hirth would have been all over these results (social media, etc) if they were favorable. News of the V3 has been fairly difficult to find. They probably still have a bit of tuning left to do. Let's hope, for their sake, the glider ends up performing better than that.

Some pictures of the JS3 can be found he
http://www.imgrum.net/user/johanjbosman/697025039

Looks very close in aerodynamics to the Akaflieg München Mü31

On Sunday, December 11, 2016 at 8:21:11 AM UTC-6, J. Nieuwenhuize wrote:
Some pictures of the JS3 can be found he
http://www.imgrum.net/user/johanjbosman/697025039

Looks very close in aerodynamics to the Akaflieg München Mü31

Retractable tailwheel, too.

Maybe George Applebay had the wing location on the fuselage right 40 years ago with the Zuni?

Looking forward to seeing how well it does!

Steve Leonard

Heard a rumor about a 747 with a JS3 on-board...headed to Oz.....