LSO Stopwatches

The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and stopping
their watches?

"F9pnthr" wrote in message
...
The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
stopping
their watches?

I've not seen that picture but I'd be willing to bet they are not holding
stopwatches. They should be holding the 'pickle' that controls the waveoff
lights (in one hand) and a mic (to communicate with the pilot over the
radio) in the other.

That is if I recall my EAWS correctly.


Larry
AECS (AW/SW/MTS)
USN 'Retired'

On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
, "F9pnthr"
wrote:

The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and stopping
their watches?

At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the pass
(15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.

Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the Groove).
Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).

Same deal for interval. Depending on what the CVW is shooting for, too much
or too little will downgrade an OK or in extreme cases buy you a waveoff.

--Woody

"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
, "F9pnthr"
wrote:

The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
stopping
their watches?

At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the
pass
(15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.

Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling LSO's
judgement?

Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the Groove).
Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).

No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh?

R / John

On 12/8/04 2:27 PM, in article , "John
Carrier" wrote:


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
, "F9pnthr"
wrote:

The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
stopping
their watches?

At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the
pass
(15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.

Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling LSO's
judgement?


Trick is... Where does the groove start? e.g. wings level slimin' over on a
(AA)?

Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the Groove).
Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).

No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh?


As long as it's greater than 11 seconds you're okay. Oh yes, I sort of
misspoke. It's an automatic DOWNGRADE if you goon up groove length.

R / John

I sympathize. I remember LSO's eyeball-checking groove length and interval,
but my last cruise was the first I've ever seen the stop watch. Again with
the fuzzy definition of where the groove starts, I sort of looked at that
stat with a jaundiced eye.

In the past, the boss was the guy that cared about interval, so he was the
one hammering guys if they were too tight on the jet in front of them. Now
paddles is in on the game too.

Finally, the SH break (stern or prior doing big bills on the speed) will
still buy you an upgrade if you don't screw up your groove, interval, or fly
a heinous pass (and depending on the boss's mood).

--Woody

Woody,

In the past, the boss was the guy that cared about interval, so he was the
one hammering guys if they were too tight on the jet in front of them. Now
paddles is in on the game too.

During the Lizards' 1973 CORAL MARU cruise, one of the duties of our rep in
Pri-Fly was to jot down the arrestment-to-arrestment time interval between
each Lizard and his immediate predecessor. Lizard OPS tracked this until
about halfway through cruise, and used the data as a supplement to each
pilot's LSO-graded pass.

I thought this an excellent idea, especially as we were all but an outfit of
nuggets (the Lizards stood up as an A-6 outfit only the year before).
Further, our predecessor A-6 squadron in CVW-15, VMA(AW)-224, had had a
rather checkered deployment during CORAL MARU's 1972 cruise, so we knew that
we would be under close observation until we re-established the worthiness
of medium attack in folks' eyes.

Another thing that helped our reputation immediately with the ships company
was our scraping all the "Semper Fi" zaps and other Corps graffiti from the
Bengal's spaces (now ours). Only Gator blackshoes have the temperament to
deal with lots of red and gold on gray ships. g
--
Mike Kanze

"Never forget ... Being your own boss means being your own janitor."

- Adam @ Home, 3/27/04


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 12/8/04 2:27 PM, in article , "John
Carrier" wrote:


"Doug "Woody" and Erin Beal" wrote in message
...
On 12/8/04 12:18 AM, in article
, "F9pnthr"

wrote:

The cover of current issue of The Hook shows four LSOs, two of whom are
using
their stopwatches. For what part of the landing are they starting and
stopping
their watches?

At least one back up paddles or writer will time groove length for the
pass
(15-17 seconds) and interval. That's part of the debrief.

Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling LSO's
judgement?


Trick is... Where does the groove start? e.g. wings level slimin' over on
a
(AA)?

Outside of 21 seconds, and you'll get a fair for LIG (Long in the
Groove).
Inside of 11 and you'll get a fair for NESA (not enough straightaway).

No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh?


As long as it's greater than 11 seconds you're okay. Oh yes, I sort of
misspoke. It's an automatic DOWNGRADE if you goon up groove length.

R / John

I sympathize. I remember LSO's eyeball-checking groove length and
interval,
but my last cruise was the first I've ever seen the stop watch. Again
with
the fuzzy definition of where the groove starts, I sort of looked at that
stat with a jaundiced eye.

In the past, the boss was the guy that cared about interval, so he was the
one hammering guys if they were too tight on the jet in front of them.
Now
paddles is in on the game too.

Finally, the SH break (stern or prior doing big bills on the speed) will
still buy you an upgrade if you don't screw up your groove, interval, or
fly
a heinous pass (and depending on the boss's mood).

--Woody

John writes- Wow, times change. They run a clock vice trust the controlling
LSO's
judgement?
BRBR
No more attaboys for a combat groove, eh? BRBR

I say, no kiddin'....I saw a pic of a bunch of them looking at a video screen
also for lineup...even on smallish decks. Oh well...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer

Same deal for interval. Depending on what the CVW is shooting for, too much
or too little will downgrade an OK or in extreme cases buy you a waveoff.


My favorite was when I was leading the division of A6 into the break behind the
Turkeys. Usually the last turkey was on down wind. (I'd spin a few or take them
all into the break) He was my interval, being the last Tom usually ment that
was a nuggett pilot. He would usually fly too wide an approach get himself LIG
so I would press him hard and fly a tight downwind, turn early and since I was
flying the "correct pattern" he would get a LIG WO.
This would hurt not only his personal landing grades but also the squadrons
oveal average.


Its called gamesmanship and it worked for almost the entire cruise until the
Turkeys learned how to fly the proper pattern. Fun in the Case 1 pattern!!!!!

Sparky

On 12/10/04 11:28 PM, in article
, "Elmshoot"
wrote:


Same deal for interval. Depending on what the CVW is shooting for, too much
or too little will downgrade an OK or in extreme cases buy you a waveoff.


My favorite was when I was leading the division of A6 into the break behind
the
Turkeys. Usually the last turkey was on down wind. (I'd spin a few or take
them
all into the break) He was my interval, being the last Tom usually ment that
was a nuggett pilot. He would usually fly too wide an approach get himself LIG
so I would press him hard and fly a tight downwind, turn early and since I was
flying the "correct pattern" he would get a LIG WO.
This would hurt not only his personal landing grades but also the squadrons
oveal average.


Its called gamesmanship and it worked for almost the entire cruise until the
Turkeys learned how to fly the proper pattern. Fun in the Case 1 pattern!!!!!

Sparky

Sparky,

Your story has sparked a rather misty-eyed reminiscence.

Aside from the above games (which make Naval aviation a HOOT), One of the
things I love about the boat (as opposed to airline flying) is that AVIATORS
control the pattern.

I absolutely DIG flying around the boat and being held accountable for my
own decisions. How many to bring into the break. When to break. How much
G to use. How much interval. It's the best environment. Thanks for the
memories.

--Woody

Woody,
I would still be in the Navy flying off the carrier if they would have let me.
The Brits do it right they have aviators that stay flying and the others chase
the stars.
Nothing prettier than a zip lip case one revovery. Everyone is responsible and
does their job. The perfect sortie: morning pinkie launch, press inland on a
low level to the Tgt. First run bullseye, low level egress to feet wet .
Marshall overhead watch the next launch, press the deck, first plane in the
groove as the last plane clears the deck. Zip lip recovery with everyone
getting aboard on the first pass. 'Ok" pass down to the ready room for coffee
and breakfast. Afternoon launch for a full stop on the beach for happy hour.

The airline guys I fly with will never understand unless they have done it them
self as well.
Sparky


Aside from the above games (which make Naval aviation a HOOT), One of the
things I love about the boat (as opposed to airline flying) is that AVIATORS
control the pattern.

I absolutely DIG flying around the boat and being held accountable for my
own decisions. How many to bring into the break. When to break. How much
G to use. How much interval. It's the best environment. Thanks for the
memories.

--Woody