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motorgliders as towplanes



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 9th 09, 02:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
rlovinggood
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Posts: 268
Default motorgliders as towplanes

On Mar 8, 1:03*pm, Brad wrote:
I know this has come up before in RAS. But thought I would bring up
the subject again.

For a club looking at long term projections, which at some point will
include either sticking a "new" engine on a Pawnee or getting rid of
it, does it make sense to start evaluating getting a 2 place
motorglider to serve as a tug and also as a touring/training tool?

Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL,
from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow
the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow
behind the clubs remaining pawnee?

We are blessed with 3 towplanes in our club, there are upcoming
factors that will/are causing us to look at several different
scenarios and am wondering if tossing a MG into the mix might be one
such solution.

Brad


Brad,

Assuming we are talking about towing with MG in the US; can you get
insurance to do this?

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, NC, USA
  #12  
Old March 9th 09, 09:30 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Jim White[_2_]
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Posts: 37
Default motorgliders as towplanes

Hi Craig.

I landed out at Sackville Farm in the 15s last year and was ear bashed for
about an hour by Tim on how good the Grob109T was for towing. Unfortunately
he was not able to give me a tow out as the undercarriage had been damaged
and it was in repair.

I think you need a very good surface to operate off and that the Grob (and
probably similar SLMGs) are too lightly built for anything more than
occasional tugging.

At BGC our tugs do c. 2000 cycles p.a. each. I doubt that a MG would stay
that pace.

Jim


At 18:00 08 March 2009, Craig Lowrie wrote:
  #13  
Old March 9th 09, 01:58 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
The Real Doctor
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Posts: 108
Default motorgliders as towplanes

On 8 Mar, 17:03, Brad wrote:

Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL,
from a 1800' grass strip?


Mendip GC in the UK tows two seaters very successfully witha Rotax
Falke. As Andreas Maurer writes, initial acceleration is a little low
(a little? I damn nearly wet myself as the upwind wall approached) but
the climb feels like anything else.

Ian
  #14  
Old March 9th 09, 02:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andreas Maurer
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Posts: 345
Default motorgliders as towplanes

On 9 Mar 2009 08:30:04 GMT, Jim White wrote:


I think you need a very good surface to operate off and that the Grob (and
probably similar SLMGs) are too lightly built for anything more than
occasional tugging.


Their strength is completely sufficient for towing all dyearlong -
lots of clubs in Germany are using motorgliders as their primary tug
plane. The only problem is that they usually need a long grass or a
paved runway to be safe.



At BGC our tugs do c. 2000 cycles p.a. each. I doubt that a MG would stay
that pace.


No problem at all for a motorglider.


  #15  
Old March 9th 09, 04:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 3
Default motorgliders as towplanes

On Mar 8, 1:03*pm, Brad wrote:
Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL,
from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow
the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow
behind the clubs remaining pawnee?
Brad


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UYPyNgf4Q4

Lambada motorglider towing
UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp

  #16  
Old March 9th 09, 04:30 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
bildan
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Posts: 646
Default motorgliders as towplanes

On Mar 9, 9:14*am, wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:03*pm, Brad wrote:

Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL,
from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow
the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow
behind the clubs remaining pawnee?
Brad


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UYPyNgf4Q4

Lambada motorglider towing
UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp


I watched a Lambada tow an LS-3 from Boulder (elev 5300) on a hot day
and it looked about the same as the SSB 180HP Supercub. The LS-3
pilot reported the same. I can't speak to the maintainability of the
Lambada but keep in mind that the Pawnee isn't sterling in that
department either.
  #17  
Old March 9th 09, 04:52 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Surfer!
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Posts: 81
Default motorgliders as towplanes

In message , Jim White
writes
Hi Craig.

I landed out at Sackville Farm in the 15s last year and was ear bashed for
about an hour by Tim on how good the Grob109T was for towing. Unfortunately
he was not able to give me a tow out as the undercarriage had been damaged
and it was in repair.

I think you need a very good surface to operate off and that the Grob (and
probably similar SLMGs) are too lightly built for anything more than
occasional tugging.


I also landed there last year and got a ride with Tim in his Grob. He
also did a tow for another arrival from Shennington who wasn't feeling
too euphoric to fly back.

Apparently the same one visited my own club the previous year to
demonstrate how good it was a towing, and they gave it our heaviest
two-seater with one of our heaviest crew combos, and it got them off the
ground. I believe our aerotow strip is just shy of 800m, and it rises
slightly at the end they took off towards. So far as I know the Grob
performed admirably.

At BGC our tugs do c. 2000 cycles p.a. each. I doubt that a MG would stay
that pace.


--
Surfer!
Email to: ramwater at uk2 dot net
  #18  
Old March 9th 09, 07:09 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bruce
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Posts: 113
Default motorgliders as towplanes

wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:03 pm, Brad wrote:
Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL,
from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to tow
the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow
behind the clubs remaining pawnee?
Brad


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UYPyNgf4Q4

Lambada motorglider towing
UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp

Personally I would far rather be behind the 100hp Samba or Lambada with
my Std Cirrus - hot and high off grass the accelleration is slower, but
the propwash is limited and climb is better than the asthmatic 180hp
(must be really little ponies over there) super cub.

The wingloading on the Lambada is very similar and the tow combination
is nicely balanced. Behind a 235hp Rallye it is, by comparison
wonderful. Same time to altitude without all the - extreme speed just
off the deck waiting for the tug to leap skyward, then get to be like a
good martini and get all shaken up by the wake turbulence - then scream
around on the outside of all the thermals.

Give me a motorglider any time...

Bruce
  #19  
Old March 10th 09, 03:15 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Derek Copeland[_2_]
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Posts: 146
Default motorgliders as towplanes

I have some experience of aerotowing behind motorgliders, most Motorfalkes
and Grob 109s. They are alright, but struggle a bit with two-seaters.
There have been times when I have beem towed so slowly (about 50knots is a
K13, two-up) that the glider felt as if it was on the point of stalling!
Remember that a glider has to produce more lift when climbing.

I believe that engine cooling is often a problem, and that M/Gs are less
tolerant to the glider getting out of position. At my club we are
expressly forbidden to low tow, or to carry out training exercises such as
'boxing the tow' when M/Gs are being used. Sorry but give me a 235hp
Pawnee (or a winch launch) anytime!

Derek C

At 15:30 09 March 2009, bildan wrote:
On Mar 9, 9:14=A0am, wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:03=A0pm, Brad wrote:

Can a MG tug pull a loaded 2 place Blanik on a standard day at SL,
from a 1800' grass strip? Or perhaps such a tug could be used to

tow
the members single place ships, and the heavier/ 2-place ships stow
behind the clubs remaining pawnee?
Brad


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D5UYPyNgf4Q4

Lambada motorglider towing
UFM 13 Rotax 912 100hp


I watched a Lambada tow an LS-3 from Boulder (elev 5300) on a hot day
and it looked about the same as the SSB 180HP Supercub. The LS-3
pilot reported the same. I can't speak to the maintainability of the
Lambada but keep in mind that the Pawnee isn't sterling in that
department either.

  #20  
Old March 10th 09, 04:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike the Strike
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Posts: 952
Default motorgliders as towplanes

I observed a 100HP Lambada equipped with 13m wings being used as a
towplane in the 2000 Worlds in South Africa. It seemed to perform
very well despite the moderate density altitude. They were launching
from an asphalt runway and the ground acceleration was slower than
most other towplanes, but once airborne no difference was notable.

The Lambada and similar modern motorgliders are very light (300kg) -
nearly half the weight of the older designs, such as the Grob 109 -
and perform very well.

I have flown a Grob 109 and it had enough trouble getting itself into
the air. The Lambada also handles a lot better than the older heavy
beasts and is a joy to fly.

Mike

 




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