How common are aircraft partnerships compared to outright ownerships?

I've come to the point where I'm looking to get into owning an
aircraft. However, I've read (and calculated) that the break-even
point for owning comes after about 150-200 hours per year.

I'm not going to be doing nearly that amount of flying. In fact, I
don't know anybody other than a CFI or some other commercial pilot who
would. So, it seems that a partnership would be "the way to go" for
most people who want to vacation or take extended trips with an
aircraft.

If so, however, how come they're so *hard* to find? I don't see any
listed in trade-a-plane or on any aircraft commerce sites like
mooneymart or whatnot.

Based upon the number of listings that I've come across, partnerships
are downright endangered species.

Are they? And, if not, how do I go about *finding* them?

- Joe

Put some ads up on the bulletin boards at local airports. There are
usually several partnerships available. Ask around.

wrote:
snip
So, it seems that a partnership would be "the way to go" for
most people who want to vacation or take extended trips with an
aircraft.

If so, however, how come they're so *hard* to find? I don't see any
listed in trade-a-plane or on any aircraft commerce sites like
mooneymart or whatnot.

Because aircraft partnerships are local, and you're looking at national or
worldwide media. Try the classified section of your local paper. Also check for
local airplanes for sale, sometimes they will take on a partner as an option to
selling. Also check on any airplanes you see at your local airport that you
like. Sometimes owners are willing to take on a partner but aren't advertising.


Based upon the number of listings that I've come across, partnerships
are downright endangered species.

Are they? And, if not, how do I go about *finding* them?

Above...

you might try looking at http://www.aopa.org at the aviation classified ads
(click on the link near the top of the window, more-or-less centered in the
banner).

By the way, I completely agree that sharing an airplane is (from a financial
perspective) the only way to go, assuming of course that you are able to
find a good partnership.

Good luck!

- Leonard
wrote in message
oups.com...
I've come to the point where I'm looking to get into owning an
aircraft. However, I've read (and calculated) that the break-even
point for owning comes after about 150-200 hours per year.

I'm not going to be doing nearly that amount of flying. In fact, I
don't know anybody other than a CFI or some other commercial pilot who
would. So, it seems that a partnership would be "the way to go" for
most people who want to vacation or take extended trips with an
aircraft.

If so, however, how come they're so *hard* to find? I don't see any
listed in trade-a-plane or on any aircraft commerce sites like
mooneymart or whatnot.

Based upon the number of listings that I've come across, partnerships
are downright endangered species.

Are they? And, if not, how do I go about *finding* them?

- Joe

If you get the right plane, the break even point can be as low as 100
hour. You tend to fly more when you own the plane because the plane is
nearly always available. How many good flying days when you want to
fly and the rentals are all booked?

--Mike

wrote:
I've come to the point where I'm looking to get into owning an
aircraft. However, I've read (and calculated) that the break-even
point for owning comes after about 150-200 hours per year.

I'm not going to be doing nearly that amount of flying. In fact, I
don't know anybody other than a CFI or some other commercial pilot who
would. So, it seems that a partnership would be "the way to go" for
most people who want to vacation or take extended trips with an
aircraft.

If so, however, how come they're so *hard* to find? I don't see any
listed in trade-a-plane or on any aircraft commerce sites like
mooneymart or whatnot.

Based upon the number of listings that I've come across, partnerships
are downright endangered species.

Are they? And, if not, how do I go about *finding* them?

- Joe

On 5-Aug-2005, wrote:

If so, however, how come they're so *hard* to find? I don't see any
listed in trade-a-plane or on any aircraft commerce sites like
mooneymart or whatnot.


Your assessment of the practicalities of airplane partnerships is exactly
correct, and for that reason they are very popular. However, it makes
little sense to advertise partnerships (BTW, the official FAA term is
"co-ownership") in national media. You need to be looking locally.

There are basically 4 ways to join a partnership, as follows:

-- You can purchase a "share" from a member of an existing partnership.

-- You can "buy into" an airplane currently owned by an individual.

-- You can form a partnership with one or more like-minded pilots and then
collectively shop for an airplane.

-- You can purchase an airplane by yourself and then seek partners to "buy
in".

Depending upon your circumstances, chances are one of these methods will
present itself if you do a little work. Obviously, if you are located in a
larger metro area your chances are better than if you hail from Zap, ND.

It has been my experience (several different partnerships on 3 different
airplanes) that partnerships generally form or change hands through
word-of-mouth. So let everybody you know, particularly pilots, A&Ps, CFIs,
etc., that you are looking. Look for local airplanes for sale, with the
idea that the owner may consider selling half rather than the whole thing.
See an airplane you like locally? Find the owner through the N-number
database
(http://www.landings.com/evird.acgi$pass*74902977!_h-www.landings.com/_landings/pages/search/search_nnr.html)
and contact him/her. He/she may be willing to consider a partnership, or
may know of a similar make/model with an available share for sale.

Finally, there is no reason why you can't let the good people that frequent
this NG help. But you are going to have to tell us your location and the
type of airplane you are looking for. Good luck!

--
-Elliott Drucker

On 5 Aug 2005 01:23:51 -0700, wrote:

I've come to the point where I'm looking to get into owning an
aircraft. However, I've read (and calculated) that the break-even
point for owning comes after about 150-200 hours per year.

I'm not going to be doing nearly that amount of flying. In fact, I
don't know anybody other than a CFI or some other commercial pilot who
would. So, it seems that a partnership would be "the way to go" for
most people who want to vacation or take extended trips with an
aircraft.

If so, however, how come they're so *hard* to find? I don't see any
listed in trade-a-plane or on any aircraft commerce sites like
mooneymart or whatnot.

Based upon the number of listings that I've come across, partnerships
are downright endangered species.

First, partnerships and clubs are probably the predominant way of
owning an aircraft or at least part of one.
You might look into local flying clubs as well as partnerships. They
are *usually* more flexible, less expensive, and may have more
available aircraft.

As others have already said, check out the bulletin boards at the
local airports and if you don't find anything, post a note that your
are looking for a partnership, or club to join.

Normally I'd expect to fly more and pay less in a club than a
partnership, but much depends on who you have for partners or club
members. Either way, when in partnerships of clubs you have to pay
even more attention to the preflight and become extra attentive as far
as things that might fail.

For the break even point that too varies. I found it to be around 75
to 100 hours for what I'm flying.

There are couple of flying clubs around here (Central Michigan) that
figure some where between $40 and $50 per hour. One has a Cherokee
180 (Hershey Bar wing - old one, but with a modern panel including a
430) and the other has a very nice 172 that is reasonably well
equipped.

Renting runs $75 to $100 an hour with a new 172 renting for around
$125, or $135 per hour.

Are they? And, if not, how do I go about *finding* them?

Good Luck,

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com


- Joe

Roger wrote:

First, partnerships and clubs are probably the predominant way of
owning an aircraft or at least part of one.
You might look into local flying clubs as well as partnerships. They
are *usually* more flexible, less expensive, and may have more
available aircraft.


I fly in a large club (200+ members) and a couple of times in the last
year I have seriously looked into buying, both solo and partnership, but
quite frankly the club is such a good deal I can't justify buying.

In the club I pay dues of $45/mo, and $80/hr wet to fly 160 hp Piper
Warrior II's with Apollo GPS and coupled autopilot. The club has a
fleet of four of them. That is the sum total of my airplane expenses and
includes a very good insurance policy (all club members are named
insureds), access to a hangar with offices that the club owns, and
social events. Since joining the club I've been flying on average 6
hours a month, which is 72 hours a year. I know exactly how much it has
cost me and I also know exactly how much it will cost me in the future
to fly.

I ran the spreadsheet on buying a low-end plane by myself, and also on
buying into a 3-way partnership on a little bit nicer plane. I never
could make it work out without significant fudging, even leaving out the
unknowns like how long before I need an overhaul, repairs, etc.

My perception of the advantages and disadvantages of club vs. ownership:

Advantages:

1. Cheaper
2. Absolutely predictable and controllable expenses (don't want to
spend as much this month? Don't fly as much).
3. No financial risk (unexpected maint, value-killing ADs, sudden
medical problem that makes an owned plane a white elephant, etc)
4. Maintenance not all my responsibility (members chip in to do
maintenance but it doesn't all fall on one or two people). Financially,
each squawk doesn't mean more $$$ out of my pocket.
5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.
6. I fly planes with better avionics and more capability than I could
afford to buy myself
7. It's easy to figure exactly what it costs me to fly (yes this can
also be a disadvantage .

Disadvantages:

1. Availability -- don't count on being able to fly on a nice weekend
day unless you reserved well ahead. This is the flip side of advantage #5.
2. Don't totally control my own fate. For example: Accidents or
negligence by other members could affect the club's insurance situation
(partnerships have this problem too, but with a club there's more
people, therefore more variables). Another example: if the club board
decides to sell or replace an airplane or change aircraft types, or
specify different avionics from what I like, I have very little say in
the matter.
3. Even though it's cheaper in the long run, it's emotionally hard to
write a large check when returning from a long trip. More flying means
you pay more, whereas when you own more flying means it gets cheaper (on
a per-hour basis, anyway)
4. Must follow club SOP's, for example minimum runway lengths, required
preapproval for grass strips, etc. For me this is not a problem because
it ameliorates the first concern in disadvantage #2, plus my own
personal mins exceed the SOPs but others might find it too restrictive.
5. Some clubs may restrict flexibility for long trips (though mine is
pretty liberal on it and it hasn't been a problem for anyone as far as I
know).
6. Easy to figure exactly what it costs to fly
7. No pride of ownership.

I've concluded that I'd like to own a plane someday, but it will have to
be when I have a lot more money than I do now. C'mon, stock market!

xyzzy wrote:

5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.

This is one of my favorite "why a club" answers. The other related answer
(which may not apply to your club) is that in a club has different types of
aircraft, there's some diversity in your flying.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

xyzzy wrote:


5. With a fleet of four basically identical planes, not completely
grounded by squawks, annuals, overhauls, etc.


This is one of my favorite "why a club" answers. The other related answer
(which may not apply to your club) is that in a club has different types of
aircraft, there's some diversity in your flying.


We also have 152's, which are such low-end trainers that hardly any
non-student pilots fly them, and Mooneys, and there are some members
that fly both Warriors and Mooneys. Most members just fly one type
though, because each type caters to a different market.

We're having that discussion now, looks like the club board has decided
to sell two of the four Warriors and buy 2 172's. I personally don't
like it because unless a pilot is willing to stay current in both types
(which is an added expense and hassle), everyone's fleet availability
just got cut in half -- I actually argue worse than in half because
having one other plane of a type is much worse than having three others
of the type when you show up for your instrument lesson and find the NAV
radio on the plane you reserved is squawked. Others like the diversity
of flying more, and quite frankly I think some members just like
shopping for airplanes. Looks like the diversity/shopping crowd has won
the argument. That's why the "you don't control your own fate"
disadvantage has recently been added to my list of pros and cons for
club vs. owning.