Malaysian MiG-29s got trounced by RN Sea Harrier F/A2s in Exercise Flying Fish

"Chuck Johnson" wrote in message
5.241...
"Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in
:

On 9/2/03 10:41 PM, in article
, "Guy Alcala"
wrote:

Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal wrote:

On 9/2/03 7:07 PM, in article ,
"John Halliwell" wrote:

In article , Paul J. Adam
writes
The MiG-29 is a dangerously agile point-defence interceptor, and
it's got afterburners to further reduce its endurance. The
Harriers are short-cycle, but at least they get max thrust dry
(and I'm led to believe that carrier fuel reserves are somewhat
more stringent than land-based... willing to be corrected)

I just don't see MiG-29s having time and fuel to get up to speed,
arrange a supersonic intercept on agile opponents, and make it
back to base on a routine basis.

From Sharkey's book on SHAR fuel consumption:

'When at full power and at low level (the worst situation for high
fuel consumption) it used very little gas; less than 200 pounds of
fuel per minute (compared with the F-4's 1800 pounds). This latter
attribute meant that it could outlast any other known fighter in
fully developed combat - a truly excellent characteristic.'

That's against an F-4 (who can't turn inside and shoot). Against a
more agile fighter, I'd bet the Sea Harrier would get shot before it
outlasted.

By the way, I'm not slamming the Sea Harrier... Had written orders
to go fly it at one time and was REALLY looking forward to it, but
for the "good of my career" I turned them down and took a staff job.

I know that the Blue Vixen is capable in the BVR stages of the
fight, but in close--pilots being equal--it's no match for a
Hornet/Viper/Fulcrum.

No doubt, although Sharkey did take on and beat F-15s and F-16s (the
F-16s were
tougher, according to him), and it's apparently quite hard to get an
IR lock (at
least with the missiles available in 1982; IIR types may not have
that problem)
with a planform view from above, like when they're turning into you
-- the wing
and stab mask the exhausts. And it is small and smokeless. But the
best bet is
undoubtedly to kill the adversary BVR before maneuverability ever
becomes an issue. Give both a/c HMS and off-boresight missiles and
maneuverability's almost irrelevant.

Guy



True... Very true.

--Woody


Man that's laughable. The Brits enjoy trumping up the very minor
curious attributes of their strange birds.
They say similar things about the other assets that comprise their fleet
of indigenously designed aircraft. May I name a few?

The Panavia (British Designed) Tornado F.3? ("...the F-14 was
considered, but it was not up to the job... ...inferior radar..." I
love that one--Hardee har-har! Inferior indeed! Lets talk about the
development time for the Foxhunter radar).

How about the Electric Lightning F.6? ("Pioneered supercruise!" ...
sure; "better than an F-15" uh-huh, bear in mind F.6 did not have a
gun--just two short range and very ineffective missiles.
Although no longer in service, it's frequently brought up as a high
water mark of British aircraft engineering. Even among the Brits it had
a notorious reputation for being short ranged and almost impossible to
maintain.

Lastly, who can forget the beautiful Blackburn Buccaneer? ("Faster than
an F-16 or F-15 with a full load of armament..." OK... ****'s getting
deep.)


Would this be the same Buc that carried a full load at 250ft (or below) that
the F16s and F15s were BANNED (yes you did read that right) from fighting in
the weeds due to the severe performance advantage enjoyed by the Buc. Not
sure if its true, but I've heard that at least one f16(?) tried to fight in
the weeds, and ended up becoming a weed?


I'm not trying be belittle the Brits, but this aircraft is still in
front line service (Although I'm sure that point will be disputed).
What they don't say is that the Buccaneer can only achieve this by
flying at the lowest of levels-which due to the density of the air, does
create high drag on the F-16 and F-15. But it also penalizes the
Buccaneers own range. At moderate altitudes where a typical aircraft
would fly the bulk of the journey before descending to attack (have you
ever seen a tanker at lo-lo level--other than landing?), both F-16 and
F-15 have superior range and speed-even with a full bag of ordinance.
The Buccaneer, assuming it had refueled several times to reach the
attack point, would promptly be shot out of the sky upon the initiation
of an attack. Why, you ask? She would make a wonderful target: Her
obsolete tail pipes would be glowing red hot, or better yet, the
opposition would have an excellent heat lock due to the boundary layer
control system (engine bleed gases exiting the wing leading edge) used
to enhance lift.

I love the Brits.

-Chuck