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Tow Signals



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 11th 06, 08:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Tow Signals

There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy

  #2  
Old October 11th 06, 08:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
CLewis95
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Tow Signals

Ramy,

I feel it is almost certain more accidents will occur in the confusion
of these important tow signals. I agree with you that it would be best
for the tow pilot to try the radio first if the "situation" allows for
it.

In an effort to help students keeps these signals straight ... I teach
the rudder wag as a visual metaphor(?) for being slapped in the face...
as in "WAKE UP!!!" and I repeat it every time signals are discussed or
practiced in flight. So far so good....

Curt Lewis - 95
Genesis 2
CFIG

On Oct 11, 2:02 pm, "Ramy" wrote:
There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy


  #3  
Old October 11th 06, 08:29 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Marc Ramsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 207
Default Tow Signals

Ramy wrote:
There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents.


No, we did not all pass a written test that had wiggling the rudder
meaning "check spoilers". This signal is a fairly recent innovation,
and there were several US sites that taught until recent years that
wiggling the rudder was a signal for the recommended release point,
hence some of the confusion.

1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!


There are plenty of places where some tow planes lack functioning
radios, including at least one that you visit.

2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.


I'd go a bit farther and say that if the tow plane is climbing and not
in danger, it would be preferable to make the signal over the airport at
above pattern altitude.

3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.


No, rocking the wings means release right *now*, not after you look
around and consider what is wrong. If you hesitate, in many cases
you'll end up with the rope heading your way.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...


Likewise.

Marc
  #4  
Old October 11th 06, 09:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
SAM 303a
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 51
Default Tow Signals

Great metaphor to cement the signal's meaning!

"CLewis95" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ramy,

I feel it is almost certain more accidents will occur in the confusion
of these important tow signals. I agree with you that it would be best
for the tow pilot to try the radio first if the "situation" allows for
it.

In an effort to help students keeps these signals straight ... I teach
the rudder wag as a visual metaphor(?) for being slapped in the face...
as in "WAKE UP!!!" and I repeat it every time signals are discussed or
practiced in flight. So far so good....

Curt Lewis - 95
Genesis 2
CFIG

On Oct 11, 2:02 pm, "Ramy" wrote:
There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy




  #5  
Old October 11th 06, 09:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Tow Signals


Marc Ramsey wrote:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!


There are plenty of places where some tow planes lack functioning
radios, including at least one that you visit.


There is absolutly no excuse for this. The tow pilot can use a $200
handheld if the tow plane is not equiped with one.


2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.


I'd go a bit farther and say that if the tow plane is climbing and not
in danger, it would be preferable to make the signal over the airport at
above pattern altitude.


Agree.


3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.


No, rocking the wings means release right *now*, not after you look
around and consider what is wrong. If you hesitate, in many cases
you'll end up with the rope heading your way.


It takes less then a second to look at the spoiler, but if the
situation is so urgent then the tow pilot can release the rope himself,
it shouldn't make much difference. But how often an immediate release
is required vs open spoilers? I think the later is much more common,
and as such, it would be statistcally better to treat it as such.


I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...


Likewise.

Marc


Ramy

  #6  
Old October 11th 06, 10:27 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Marc Ramsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 207
Default Tow Signals

Ramy wrote:
Marc Ramsey wrote:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!

There are plenty of places where some tow planes lack functioning
radios, including at least one that you visit.


There is absolutly no excuse for this. The tow pilot can use a $200
handheld if the tow plane is not equiped with one.


I suggest you bring this up next time you visit someplace like Williams.
I'm sure the response will be rather amusing...
  #7  
Old October 11th 06, 11:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ken Ward
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default Tow Signals

In article .com,
"Ramy" wrote:

There had been yet another fatality recently as a result of
misinterpreting the open spoilers signal. True we all passed the
written test and know that wiggeling the rudder means check spoilers
and rocking the wings means release, yet so many students and
experienced pilots alike continiue to confuse this signal and releasing
the tow rope instead, often resulting in accidents. It is not hard to
understand why: The tow plane barely climb, the glider pilot suspects
something must be wrong with the tow plane, then he/she sees the rudder
signal which confirms his thought that something is wrong, then
releases the tow rope in panic, since this is what we were taught to do
if something is wrong with the tow plane.
I think that there is a relatively simple solution for this:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!
2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.
3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Ramy


It might be that there was a spoiler malfunction. I think there was a
crash during a landing at Truckee where the spoilers on a G103 were
opened as a test, but then because of wear in the mechanism, they went
into a configuration where they couldn't be retracted.

There could have been a medical event, or a medical event combined with
an equipment malfunction, leaving a student to make a critical decision.

As usual, this is just speculation until an investigation is performed.

Still, I'm very sad to hear about Joe. He made a better pilot out of
me, when I was a student. For one thing, I learned to politely decline
if he offered me half of his pickle sandwich, which was his way of
rewarding good flying. Talk about spicy!!

Ken
  #8  
Old October 12th 06, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Phil Jeffery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9
Default Tow Signals

Do not expect any tug pilot with a normal life expectancy to use a hand-held
radio whilst anywhere near the ground especially with a reduced climb rate
due to deployed glider airbrakes. Ramy, obviously you don't fly powered
aircraft or you would know that one hand should be on the stick/control
column and the other ensuring the throttle stays full forward until reaching
a respectable altitude. If the tug pilot is wearing a head-set and there's
PTT on the stick by all means give a radio call but without these it can
only be the rudder wiggle.


"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!


There are plenty of places where some tow planes lack functioning
radios, including at least one that you visit.


There is absolutly no excuse for this. The tow pilot can use a $200
handheld if the tow plane is not equiped with one.


2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.


I'd go a bit farther and say that if the tow plane is climbing and not
in danger, it would be preferable to make the signal over the airport at
above pattern altitude.


Agree.


3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.


No, rocking the wings means release right *now*, not after you look
around and consider what is wrong. If you hesitate, in many cases
you'll end up with the rope heading your way.


It takes less then a second to look at the spoiler, but if the
situation is so urgent then the tow pilot can release the rope himself,
it shouldn't make much difference. But how often an immediate release
is required vs open spoilers? I think the later is much more common,
and as such, it would be statistcally better to treat it as such.


I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...


Likewise.

Marc


Ramy



  #9  
Old October 12th 06, 12:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 746
Default Tow Signals

Ok, Ok, I stand corrected. Still, no excuse for no panel radio in a tug
IMHO.

Ramy

Phil Jeffery wrote:
Do not expect any tug pilot with a normal life expectancy to use a hand-held
radio whilst anywhere near the ground especially with a reduced climb rate
due to deployed glider airbrakes. Ramy, obviously you don't fly powered
aircraft or you would know that one hand should be on the stick/control
column and the other ensuring the throttle stays full forward until reaching
a respectable altitude. If the tug pilot is wearing a head-set and there's
PTT on the stick by all means give a radio call but without these it can
only be the rudder wiggle.


"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!

There are plenty of places where some tow planes lack functioning
radios, including at least one that you visit.


There is absolutly no excuse for this. The tow pilot can use a $200
handheld if the tow plane is not equiped with one.


2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.

I'd go a bit farther and say that if the tow plane is climbing and not
in danger, it would be preferable to make the signal over the airport at
above pattern altitude.


Agree.


3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

No, rocking the wings means release right *now*, not after you look
around and consider what is wrong. If you hesitate, in many cases
you'll end up with the rope heading your way.


It takes less then a second to look at the spoiler, but if the
situation is so urgent then the tow pilot can release the rope himself,
it shouldn't make much difference. But how often an immediate release
is required vs open spoilers? I think the later is much more common,
and as such, it would be statistcally better to treat it as such.


I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Likewise.

Marc


Ramy


  #10  
Old October 12th 06, 01:31 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tony[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default Tow Signals

well gee, dont ya think that maybe the answer to this is to actually
learn the signals? apparently the towpilot took the time to learn the
standard signals, the least the pilot could do is return the favor.

As a towpilot, if i see airbrakes are out, but we are still climbing,
im not going to give the signal until i know you can make it back to
the airport. Ive heard too many of these stories. If we arent
climbing and are low, you are on your own, goodbye. if we are high but
not climbing you get the signal and i hope you figure it out.

also, for me, the biggest danger below 200 feet or so is not the
throttle slipping back. it is that you didnt hook up your elevator
right or something silly like that. I dont feel like getting taken out
with you so once the throttle is full, engine gauges checked,
everything normal, my hand is near the release ready to let you go.
Occasionally i come back to the throttle to double check it is at full,
which it always is. As we get higher and i have more time to recover
from the upset you cause while programming your geewhizbang palm
thingymajob then i go back to the throttle and mixture more,
controlling CHTs and all that stuff.


Ramy wrote:
Ok, Ok, I stand corrected. Still, no excuse for no panel radio in a tug
IMHO.

Ramy

Phil Jeffery wrote:
Do not expect any tug pilot with a normal life expectancy to use a hand-held
radio whilst anywhere near the ground especially with a reduced climb rate
due to deployed glider airbrakes. Ramy, obviously you don't fly powered
aircraft or you would know that one hand should be on the stick/control
column and the other ensuring the throttle stays full forward until reaching
a respectable altitude. If the tug pilot is wearing a head-set and there's
PTT on the stick by all means give a radio call but without these it can
only be the rudder wiggle.


"Ramy" wrote in message
oups.com...

Marc Ramsey wrote:
1 - If radio is available (and it always should) - use it instead of
the rudder signal!

There are plenty of places where some tow planes lack functioning
radios, including at least one that you visit.

There is absolutly no excuse for this. The tow pilot can use a $200
handheld if the tow plane is not equiped with one.


2 - If this doesn't doesn't work, the signal should be avoided until
the glider is at least 200
feet, unless of course, the tow plane is in immediate danger.

I'd go a bit farther and say that if the tow plane is climbing and not
in danger, it would be preferable to make the signal over the airport at
above pattern altitude.

Agree.


3 - If the glider pilot sees the tow plane signaling something (wigling
the rudder or rocking the wings)
the FIRST look at the spoilers, then release the tow rope if necessary.
In this case, the pilot will do the correct action regardless of the
signal. I think this is what needs to be taught.

No, rocking the wings means release right *now*, not after you look
around and consider what is wrong. If you hesitate, in many cases
you'll end up with the rope heading your way.


It takes less then a second to look at the spoiler, but if the
situation is so urgent then the tow pilot can release the rope himself,
it shouldn't make much difference. But how often an immediate release
is required vs open spoilers? I think the later is much more common,
and as such, it would be statistcally better to treat it as such.


I am not an instructor myself, so this is just my humble opinion...

Likewise.

Marc

Ramy


 




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