Pilot Suicides

Crash Lander wrote:
"Jose" wrote in message
...
Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a brief
pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has already done
one or not?
Yes. But that doesn't mean that the student needs to be supervised while
he does his own preflight.

Jose

How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the
instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway?
Crash Lander



Each instructor will have a preferred method for handling student
pre-flights based on personal experience. You want the student to
develop confidence, and allowing the student to do the pre-flight
naturally fits into that side of the learning curve. This however
doesn't release the instructor from the responsibility for the
pre-flight being done correctly.
I've seen instructors use just about every method one can think of for
handling pre-flights.
In all the years I was instructing, I never had a situation where my
student was sent out alone to preflight an airplane that the student was
scheduled in with me as the instructor. This doesn't mean I rode herd on
the student's pre-flight either. It means that the pre-flight was always
treated as part of the dual period. The student always did the
pre-flight with me simply watching. A good thorough pre-flight shouldn't
take all that long to perform if done correctly. It was always my
policy, especially if a Hobbs meter was involved, to schedule each
student with enough time the student to do the pre-flight normally as we
went out to the airplane together.
It's notable also, from an instructor's point of view, that seldom was
one of these pre-flights performed where absolutely no comment was
necessary between myself and the student involved. Point here is that
every moment of a dual session can and should be a learning experience
for a student.
I always made a point of placing the emphasis on the pre-flight with the
student, with comment from me only when appropriate. Using this method
proved over time to instill both confidence in the student as his/her
pre-flight skills increased to competent levels, and also serve as a
silently observed double check on the aircraft's condition by me that
satisfied safety requirements.


In my opinion, there should never be a situation for an instructor that
includes saving time as a factor in a pre-flight. If this is an issue,
students are being scheduled too closely together.

Dudley Henriques

On Wed, 7 Mar 2007 20:17:56 -0800, Crash Lander wrote
(in article ):

"Jose" wrote in message
...
Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a brief
pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has already done
one or not?

Yes. But that doesn't mean that the student needs to be supervised while
he does his own preflight.

Jose

How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the
instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway?
Crash Lander



An instructor, who knows exactly what he is looking for and where to look for
it, can do a preflight in a fraction of the time that a student can.

If I have to stand over a student while he does the preflight, then I am
going to charge for my time.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"Jay Beckman" wrote:
Mine always checked the oil, sticked the tanks (and double checked the fuel
caps..) and generally did a basic walk around *after* I'd preflighted. He
was certainly making sure I wasn't going to kill us both but under the guise
of education, he'd always "hey c'mere" me and we'd discuss pitch (while he
checked the elevator), roll (while he checked the ailerons), etc... He
didn't check every nut and bolt like I did (and still do) but he had a right
to protect his butt...

I'm not sure if they were doing it then, Jay, but when I worked there,
the CFIs almost always added .2 or .3 (around 20 minutes) to the
instructor's time to cover the few minutes of "dual" preflighting and
post-flight debrief -- charged as "Ground". (My preflight still includes
every nut and bolt, too!)

On Mar 7, 7:27 pm, "Crash Lander" wrote:
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in oglegroups.com...

If a student is going for a flight, with the instructor, and the student is
expected to pre-flight the a/c before the instructor gets there, whjat
happens if there is an incident, and it turns out to be due to something
that should have been picked up in the pre-flight? Surely, any instructor
that values his life, would at least do a brief pre-flight himself,
regardless of whether the student has already done one or not? if the a/c
crashes, it's the instructor who is responsible, because the instructor is
PIC when flying dual with a student.

If I've been teaching in the plane all day I can preflight it again
for the next trip out in about 5 minutes. I don't want to force the
student to do the same. I'm not aware of any school that makes the CFI
stand around and watch every preflight (usually just the pre-solo and
pre-checkride preflights). I'm sure the result would be students
feeling very pressured to go quick, not something that is good.

Crash Lander schrieb:
If a student is going for a flight, with the instructor, and the student is
expected to pre-flight the a/c before the instructor gets there, whjat
happens if there is an incident, and it turns out to be due to something

The student, the instructor, the FBO, the airport manager and the
airplane manufactorer will get sued.

In article ,
Stefan wrote:

If a student is going for a flight, with the instructor, and the student is
expected to pre-flight the a/c before the instructor gets there, whjat
happens if there is an incident, and it turns out to be due to something

The student, the instructor, the FBO, the airport manager and the
airplane manufactorer will get sued.

Only people/estates with assets will get sued.

--
Bob Noel
(gave up looking for a particular sig the lawyer will)

Crash Lander wrote:
"Jose" wrote in message
...
Surely, any instructor that values his life, would at least do a
brief pre-flight himself, regardless of whether the student has
already done one or not?

Yes. But that doesn't mean that the student needs to be supervised
while he does his own preflight.

Jose

How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight
before the instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it
again anyway? Crash Lander

Becasue an instructor is capable of doing a preflight faster than a student.

On 3/7/2007 11:17:57 PM, "Crash Lander" wrote:

How then, does it 'save time' if the student does the pre-flight before the
instructor arrives, if the instructor is going to do it again anyway?

Instructor is going to check the "kill-me" items like fuel and oil quantity,
elevator and aileron bolts, etc...

--
Peter

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
e.com...
Student pilot Eric Johnson kills himself and his eight-year-old daughter
by
slamming a plane into his former mother-in-law's house. The Indiana Star
notes that as a student pilot he was not allowed to carry passengers...
Apparently he practiced a few touch and goes before killing himself.

This seems to be getting to be a regular deal. Embry-Riddle instructors
killing themselves on the runway, other divorced pilots deliberately
crashing
into houses, people jumping out of airplanes on final and landing on power
lines so that their severed torsos splat a few feet away from small
children.

Ah yes. Suicide is such a beautiful, noble thing, according to some
people.
This is a trend I would really like to see stop.

A trend that has been running for 50,000 years....

"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Jay Beckman" writes:
Step One: Eliminate all personal relationships where anyone could ever
have
the possibility of getting their heart broken...

Step Two: change the rules so a pilot can seek professional help for
depression without fear of instantly losing their medical.

Yes, being a pilot, even an amatur, is more important than your life, or
that of your child...