Pilot Suicides

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Jay Beckman" writes:
Step One: Eliminate all personal relationships where anyone could ever
have
the possibility of getting their heart broken...
Step Two: change the rules so a pilot can seek professional help for
depression without fear of instantly losing their medical.

Yes, being a pilot, even an amatur, is more important than your life, or
that of your child...


If it was only that black and white. You cannot even ask a professional
if you have real issues or not without the risk of losing your medical.
The forces people to make un-informed decisions about their health
because they fear the consequences of being told that they don't need
medication but rather to change their lifestyle.

"John Theune" wrote in message
newsTVHh.22036$tf.11203@trndny06...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Christopher Brian Colohan" wrote in message
.. .
"Jay Beckman" writes:
Step One: Eliminate all personal relationships where anyone could ever
have
the possibility of getting their heart broken...
Step Two: change the rules so a pilot can seek professional help for
depression without fear of instantly losing their medical.

Yes, being a pilot, even an amatur, is more important than your life, or
that of your child...


If it was only that black and white. You cannot even ask a professional
if you have real issues or not without the risk of losing your medical.

???

The forces people to make un-informed decisions about their health
because they fear the consequences of being told that they don't need
medication but rather to change their lifestyle.

Imagine that: they have to deal with reality.

I recall some stories about people in their 80's that could no longer drive,
etc.

On Mar 7, 7:10 pm, Jose wrote:
If I thought you were going to kill your 8 year old daughter I most certainly
would try to prevent it, no matter what your personal opinion of freedom was.

I might even try to prevent you from riding a bicycle without a helmet, if
for no other reason than that I am tired of having my tax and insurance
dollars going to support the paralyzed bozos who thought they had a right to
ride without one.

And that's how we end up in a nanny state. It starts with something
very reasonable, and then something less reasonable, and ends up with
all of us in cages.


Precisely so. Its better to fight for the elimination of taxes than to
try and control how they are spent.

On Mar 7, 6:39 pm, Judah wrote:

Bulls%^&*.

Are you Corey Lidle's wife?

How, exactly, does an FBO rental counter person determine in the 6 seconds it
takes to get the keys for the plane that the rental student is about to use
it to commit suicide?

Do you think he went into the FBO and announced it?

Perhaps we should sue McDonalds because if they would have given him hotter
coffee he would have killed himself using the coffee instead of the plane.

What a world.

I once witnessed an FBO owner hand over the keys to an airplane to a
pilot who she had never met, had never flown with and had not received
any type of checkout from the FBO's CFI. The only thing he did was
flash his ATP certificate at this FBO owner and she handed him keys.
There was no attempt to verify that he was actually a pilot let alone
verify that he was proficient at flying the aircraft he was allowed to
use.

I've seen many cases where renters and/or CFIs crashed aircraft
because they were flying under conditions or circumstances that they
should NOT have been flying in. Some FBOs allow people who are un-
qualified to hand out keys or they use systems to control key access
that don't allow for any pre-screening.

I'm not saying the FBO should take 100% responsibility for the pilot's
actions, but there ARE occasions when a prudent FBO could stop an
accident before it happens by not dispatching the aircraft.

On Mar 7, 6:37 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

I might even try to prevent you from riding a bicycle without a helmet, if
for no other reason than that I am tired of having my tax and insurance
dollars going to support the paralyzed bozos who thought they had a right to
ride without one.


Geez CJ, the bike helmet police? Are you serious? If you're really
concerned about your taxes and insurance dollars, why not go after
those that have a significant impact? I suggest hanging around at
McDonalds and knocking Big Macs and fries out of every obese person's
hands. Hang around outside a large office building and snatch the
cigarettes away from the smokers. Those are the people that have an
impact. Paralyzed bicyclists don't even register on the meter.

By the way, those paralyzed bozos did (in most cases) have a right
to ride without one. Just as most of us have a right to run with
scissors, or even slip with flaps :-)))

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

On Thu, 08 Mar 2007 04:40:02 GMT, Jose
wrote:

The student's preflight is probably much slower. The instructor's
preflight probably concentrates on a few critical issues.

Plus the instructor very likely has already taken the plane up that
day. *And* he knows the plane.

The other day I had my biennial in the instructor's own airplane. I
was amused to realize that he was doing his own preflight check even
as I was finishing mine. But in this case he hadn't flown the plane
that day.

Cubdriver usenet AT danford.net wrote:
Plus the instructor very likely has already taken the plane up that
day. *And* he knows the plane.

I know *my* airplane, too, but I still do as thorough a preflight, every
time, as I did on the planes I used to rent. What's knowing the plane
have to do with it? Things can still change between flights.

On Mar 7, 8:39 pm, Jim wrote:

This happened at my home airport The guy only had 1 supervised solo

He was able to get the plane because he hid the girl and the FBO thought
he was waiting for the Instructor to show up for a lesson. Which he
did show up for a lesson but for another student he was already airborne

It has been customary for the student to get the keys and preflight the
plane before the Instructor shows up to save time

Again, I point my finger at the FBOs practices. Customary? Ok. Good
idea? No.

"Save Time" sometimes equals "Costs Lives."

Aviation is an inherently dangerous undertaking. Time spent doing it
right will save lives. This means EVERYONE. The FBO owner, the FBO
dispatcher, the CFI, the renter, the lineman, the
mechanic...everyone.

In my opinion the FBO should NEVER dispatch keys to anyone other than
the PIC. If the student is flying dual with his CFI or flying solo,
then the Student may be given the keys but only when a CFI is
confirmed to be present and supervising.

"Deadstick" wrote:
In my opinion the FBO should NEVER dispatch keys to anyone other than
the PIC. If the student is flying dual with his CFI or flying solo,
then the Student may be given the keys but only when a CFI is
confirmed to be present and supervising.

If you worked at a school or FBO, you'd see how/why it's done this way,
the student signing the dispatch sheet and being given the keys to go
preflight while the CFI is finishing up with the prior customer.

And "only when the CFI is confirmed to be present and supervising" would
be a huge grey area and subject to anyone's interpretation of "present
and supervising". If he/she is present at the FBO, does that count as
being "present"? or does he/she have to be "present" at the *airplane*
while the student is pre-flighting? What is "supervising"? If he/she is
looking out the window while the student pre-flights, is that
"supervising" or does he/she have to be standing 3-feet away to fulfill
the definition of "supervising"?

It's like the varying opinions of what "supervised solo" means.
Everyone's FIRST solo is "supervised" because the CFI is generally
standing somewhere close to the runway watching the whole thing. How
about the first time the unlicensed solo student leaves the airport and
flies out to the practice area? Aside from the pre-flight debrief, the
pre-flight and the takeoff, once the airplane is out of sight, how does
that fit the definition of "supervised"?

The ONLY reason this commonly used procedure of students pre-flighting
while their CFIs are finishing up with prior customers doesn't work is
because of the one in how-many who takes the keys and flies the airplane
into a house.

It's also worth noting that there are very few hours of instruction
between the time a student goes out to preflight and when he or she is
signed off to solo. What is being worried to death here is that brief
interval spanning maybe 10 or 15 hours of instruction, What then?
Suppose he was qualified to solo? Suppose he passed his exam and was
now a PP?

This is reminding me of gun control laws that are passed after a crime
is committed that never addresses the threat -- instead it makes
ownership more difficult for owners who are trying to stay legal.



On Mar 9, 1:51 pm, Shirl wrote:
"Deadstick" wrote:
In my opinion the FBO should NEVER dispatch keys to anyone other than
the PIC. If the student is flying dual with his CFI or flying solo,
then thpeople are e Student may be given the keys but only when a CFI is
confirwhmed to be present and supervising.

If you worked at a school or FBO, you'd see how/why it's done this way,
the student signing the dispatch sheet and being given the keys to go
preflight while the CFI is finishing up with the prior customer.

And "only when the CFI is confirmed to be present and supervising" would
be a huge grey area and subject to anyone's interpretation of "present
and supervising". If he/she is present at the FBO, does that count as
being "present"? or does he/she have to be "present" at the *airplane*
while the student is pre-flighting? What is "supervising"? If he/she is
looking out the window while the student pre-flights, is that
"supervising" or does he/she have to be standing 3-feet away to fulfill
the definition of "supervising"?

It's like the varying opinions of what "supervised solo" means.
Everyone's FIRST solo is "supervised" because the CFI is generally
standing somewhere close to the runway watching the whole thing. How
about the first time the unlicensed solo student leaves the airport and
flies out to the practice area? Aside from the pre-flight debrief, the
pre-flight and the takeoff, once the airplane is out of sight, how does
that fit the definition of "supervised"?

The ONLY reason this commonly used procedure of students pre-flighting
while their CFIs are finishing up with prior customers doesn't work is
because of the one in how-many who takes the keys and flies the airplane
into a house.