Why is Soaring declining

Liam Finley wrote:

Pat Russell wrote in message . ..

Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

-Pat


I think the elitism problem is largely an urban myth.

It's all too easy for unsuccesful pilots to blame elitism rather than
take a hard look at their own lack of skill, ability or perserverence.

Perhaps we should start voluntarily limiting our flights to 1 hour and
within 15 miles of the airport so the Lennies of the world needn't
feel so bad about their lack of achievement.

Pogo: "We have met the enemy, and he is us". Nothing Lennie says could
be worse than this.
--
-----
change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Pat Russell wrote in message . ..
Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?

No, It's not the easiest to address. Those that practice it, probably
live the rest of their lives the same way, and don't really care if
they're doing any damage or not. They don't see it, never will
because it would have them take a good look at themselves, and find
that they're far from perfect.

The first is probably insurmountable, common sense says food for the
family is more important than time in a glider.

The second, depends on how far one is willing to travel, and in my
case, I'm not.

Third, something has to offer more than the others, and depending on
the interests of the individual, for most of the population, soaring
is pretty far from the top of the list, if it ever made it to the
list. No different than any other hobby. Soaring gets to scramble
for the interest and the bucks just like any other activity. If it
makes the cut, you got one, if not, better look for another one.

Lennie, you're starting to scare me. A couple of good posts in a row.

Tony V.

Oh, yeah.... :-) :-)

Tony Verhulst wrote in message ...
Lennie, you're starting to scare me. A couple of good posts in a row.

Yeah. NOw tell me what I'm saying now that I didn't start saying in
1999. What I was seeing then is the same as I'm seeing now, ecomomy
down, less disposable income, more expensive gliders, death spiral.
The same people talking down any thought of an affordable, although
lower performance machine, and they still can't see that the high buck
way isn't doing it.

For a good illustration of my answer to PR's point #4, see the drivel
by liam the lemming.

(He'll never get a good word out of me for anything, now or ever. His
only good point is that he makes a perfect bad example.)

...but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address? [Elitism]

Review Wander's "GrowBook",
http://acro.harvard.edu/SOARING/books/growbook.htm . Let's make soaring
friendlier, less private, less mysterious.

"John H. Campbell" wrote in message
...
...but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address? [Elitism]

Review Wander's "GrowBook",
http://acro.harvard.edu/SOARING/books/growbook.htm . Let's make soaring
friendlier, less private, less mysterious.

I'm a bit confused by this "elitism" sub-thread.

Seven years ago when I first wandered onto the field, I saw the sleek glass
ships grid and I wanted to fly one.

I started training in the 2-33, solo'ed, and struggled to stay aloft for my
alotted hour. I saw the glass owners drive up, assemble and fly off. Only
on my duty days or if I hung around till the end of the day did I see their
high speed returns. I wasn't resentful of them, I was inspired. I wanted
to do that too. They were what we marketing types call 'my aspirant group'.
When I had enough training and experience to ask an intelligent question, I
found that they were very approachable folks and were eager to share what
they knew.

I bought a PW-5 with several partners and learned to stay up and to go
places.

I bought a 303 with a partner and go farther and faster.

Maybe some day I'll have a '28 or a Diana or a Duo to fly with my daughter
when she grows up a bit.

The reason I'm writing this is that the other week I was thinking that to
some extent, I've become one of those guys I aspired to be (humble
disclaimer: I'm well over #400 in the pilots ranking; I'm not a highly
experienced xc pilot or top of the leader board racer). But these days I do
drive up, assemble and fly off. I fly home late in the day. I put my ship
back in her box and drive home. Have I become an elitist? I don't think
so.

It isn't that I've become less friendly, more private and more mysterious.
It is that actual flying takes up more of my time around the club. Like
those who passed wisdom on to me, I'm happy to pass along what I know.

You've just got to catch me early or late.

Brent

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:40:02 GMT, Pat Russell
wrote:

Allow me to summarize what I have learned from this thread.
Soaring has declined for these reasons:

1. Money
2. Accessibility
3. Competition from other activities
4. Elitism

Valiant efforts have been made to lessen the impact of the first
three, but isn't it embarrassing how feebly we have tackled the
fourth, the easiest one to address?


Sadly, these days (in the UK anyway) it seems that accusations of
elitism often get applied to anything that can't be mastered instantly
and doesn't involve chasing a ball. Gliding is obviously elitist just
because becoming a soaring pilot takes time and involves learning a
number of new skills.

And, please lets not argue about the (perceived) cost: the amount that
ordinary folks are prepared to spend on, e.g., gokarting for their
kids or golf can easily exceed the cost of soaring. Again, that
assumes UK club fees and glider prices, so that comparison may not
work elsewhere. I know a guy whose son was close to top rank in
karting - they spent £20K a year running that kart and competing - and
another family who lashed out £1200 on a used kart for their kid. In
the UK you could get solo for less than the cost of that used kart.
Buying my ASW-20 and flying it for a year will cost less than £20K.
Amortising that cost over 10 years will reduce the yearly outlay to
the equivalent of flying a club glider, so over time gliding is vastly
cheaper than top-level karting and I bet that still holds if I'd
bought new kit such as an ASW-28.

--
martin@ : Martin Gregorie
gregorie : Harlow, UK
demon :
co : Zappa fan & glider pilot
uk :

Martin Gregorie wrote in message . ..

Sadly, these days (in the UK anyway) it seems that accusations of
elitism often get applied to anything that can't be mastered instantly
and doesn't involve chasing a ball. Gliding is obviously elitist just
because becoming a soaring pilot takes time and involves learning a
number of new skills.

No, the elitism is more often in casual remarks, ("Why anyone would
want to fly that POS is beyond me."), snide little derogatory remarks
towards any that can't or won't spend themselves into bankruptcy for
the sake of maintaining an image. "You'll never (insert favorite
action here) if you keep flying (Insert favorite target aircraft
here)". What part of "This is as much as I'm willing to spend" do you
have a problem understanding? "You will soon get tired of it and want
something better." I'm tired of my 13 year old Chevy truck and would
like a Dodge Viper, too. But it ain't gonna happen. Or as the one
fellow that I still talk with told me, when they're leaning on their
trailers with the glass still inside, laughing up their sleeves
because he's going up in the 2-33, they're still standing on the
ground watching him fly. "I wouldn't waste my time flying (Insert
name here)." (Then stand there and watch everyone else fly.)
"Conditions aren't good enough today." (Great, that means your hour in
the rental is open for someone else.)

Evidently your stomach for elitism and generalized stupidity is
greater than mine.

18 minutes? $38? Yep that's a typical short training
flight...

Hmm...Dang. As I think about it, soaring (once one gets
over the airsickness) is a blast. But in my experience,
he's right: LEARNING how to soar is kind of a big
pain in the butt...

Lennie the Lurker wrote:
--

------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

(Mark James Boyd) wrote in message news:408012fd$1@darkstar...
18 minutes? $38? Yep that's a typical short training
flight...

Typical in that respect.

Not so typical in that when I looked down, on downwind and saw the
planes being towed to the hangar that they were stored in for the
winter, I knew that it was my last one. I don't think anyone else had
any indication of my intentions until the first day of ground school
when I took all my books in and told our beloved Pawnee Pat to give
them to anyone that could use them. Abandoned my radio and somewhat
over $100 in block time, don't know what happened to them. Took me
until July or August to decide that the plane was just draining me by
sitting under the tree in the backyard.

Typical short training flight.