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#11
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
"Peter R." wrote in message ... wrote: In general, how do aircraft partnerships work? Do partnerships exist for singles? Are they a good idea vs. purchasing a used aircraft outright? What about flying clubs - do they typically offer good multi-day rental rates or have aircraft available for scheduled use? Simplistically, you can get a feel for it by understanding this: 1 = low 10= high Operating costs (hourly and monthly) ================== Owning: 10 Partnership: 7 Flying Club: 3 Aircraft Availability: ====================== Owning: 10 Partnership: 6 Flying Club: 3 How many people operate their business via club aircraft? Try covering an area 700 miles by 900 miles in your typical club aircraft! :~) (I did it for our first two years and wore my wife and I ragged.) |
#12
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
Matt Barrow wrote:
And people treat club aircraft "slightly" better than the average person treats a rental car. Obviously not pilots such as Jay (seriously, no sarcasim intended), but my observation and experience supports yours. -- Peter |
#13
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
Matt Barrow wrote:
And people treat club aircraft "slightly" better than the average person treats a rental car. Details may matter. The club to which I belong (http://flyingclub.org/) is more like a partnership than club. We've all equity in (that gets returned when a new member replaces us), making us all part owners. MX is paid by...us. I know that some clubs are run more as rental shops, which I suppose could encourage rough treatment. Still, that's disappointing in a way. I wouldn't mistreat the rentals I used to fly because, if nothing else, I flew them regularly. I didn't have an ownership stake, but I certainly had a stake. [Plus, for lease-backs I typically knew the owner...and he knew me grin.] - Andrew |
#14
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
Peter R. wrote:
Andrew Gideon wrote: If I were an owner or partner of a lone plane, I'd have had to cancel the flight. But then again, if you were a single owner or partner you wound probably not cause some of the incidents that have landed a few of the local flying club's aircraft in the shop. [stupid club pilots tricks deleted] I belong to a flying club with 3 virtually identical C172s for IFR training and cross country flying, 3 virtually identical 152's for primary training, and 2 Mooneys for advanced training and serious cross-country flying. When our planes go into the shop it's seldom because of stupid pilot tricks (though of course it has happened). Usually it's avionics squawks, annuals, routine maint, or things just breaking. Over the years I have experienced a vaccuum failure (luckily in CAVU conditions) and an autopilot failure in club planes, neither of which could be attributed to stupid pilot tricks. In both cases I squawked it upon landing and flew other club planes until they were fixed. My wallet didn't hurt at the cost, and I didn't stress over how to schedule and pay for the repairs. I would put stupid pilot tricks at less than 10% of the downtime of our planes. In the remaining 90% of the cases, the problems would not have been preventable by a single owner who never makes a mistake (heh), but that single owner would still be out of luck, both finiancially and schedule-wise, if it happened to his plane. In the club, you can schedule another one ... if it's available. But if a plane is down, the others will be scheduled so tightly that backup availability may be more theoretical than actual. Our club's planes are pretty tightly scheduled but they do work with people, for example, some local training flights may get bumped if someone needs to take a checkride and his scheduled plane is down, next priority is overnight trips which may bump local flights if that happens, etc. Our manager is good at working proactively to resolve these situations. It's all a matter of a club's philosophy of availability vs. cost. Tight availability means higher utilization and lower cost per hour for members, and of course the reverse is also true. Ideally one would own a plane and belong to a club for backup. Best of both worlds, but not exactly economical Until I hit the lottery or something like that, club is the way to go as far as I am concerned. |
#15
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
I teach at a flying club and own my Mooney with a partner. The
difference with ownership is that you can often time maintenance items so they do not interfere with planned trips. Although flying clubs say they try to do this, it rarely works out that way. I can't think of a single time I've had to cancel a trip in my Mooney due to mechanical issues. However, I've had to cancel checkrides and cross countries with students at the flying club for the same. Also, no mater how much a flying club claims to have perfect maintenance, a flying club plane just isn't maintained as well as an owned plane. Its a mater of economics. It costs a damn **** load of money to make the difference between ok and great maintenance. Members of a flying club join because they think its cheaper than renting at an FBO and expect it to be cheaper. Aircraft owners know that owning is more expensive. -Robert |
#16
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
Bingo! Yes, I know that if there is a problem after a flight, I can
have it fixed before the next time I fly and that only my partner and I will be flying it before a trip. I'm planning on flying down to Mexico next month. I know leading up to my trip the condition of my plane and that any maintenance items need to be done sooner in order to avoid conflicting with my trip. I also know that the plane isn't going to be used much between now and my trip. You just can't get that type of reliability when you have dozens of people flying the plane. You just can't be as sure that the plane will be ready to go when you show up with your family to fly to Cabo. -Robert |
#17
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Single-Engine Partnership vs. Used vs. Flying Clubs
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