Landing on Tow - YouTube link.

On Nov 11, 2:20*pm, AndersP wrote:
wrote:

People claim that this is done in Europe on a regular basis, in which
country/countries may I ask ?

France for one. It's part of the PVT curriculum there. When you see a
student doing this maneuver, you know he is close to fly solo....

Richard
Phoenix,AZ

Here in Argentina it´s not a required maneuver but lots of clubs do it
as a pre solo confidence builder. A double release failure is highly
unlikely but it´s a good test to see if the student responds well to
an unusual situation.
We usually do a touch and go and then a low release to simulate a rope
break.
A good briefing and a good tow pilot make it a fun exercise.

Juan Carlos

JC wrote:
as a pre solo confidence builder.

And as a good exercise for a future aero-retrieve or aero-relocation,
during which it is not unlikely to face a situation where one must sink
on tow a couple of hundred feet (due to clouds, airspace, whatever).

Tom Knauff says the rare double release failure has occurred.
On your checkride, it is required -- sort of.

In the USA the "Double Release Failure" is included in the Private
Glider Pilot Practical Test Standards (PTS), Area of Operation IV,
Task G. It states that the applicant "Demonstrates simulated aero tow
abnormal occurrences as required by the examiner." Double release
failure is also referenced in the Commercial and Flight Instructor-
Glider PTS.

Some examiners in the USA require this demonstration. Others ask the
applicant to explain their actions (and signals).
Ask your CFIG and Examiner about this Task (and any other) in advance
in order to prepare for it.

Some important points.

The wake (prop wash / wing wash) of the towplane in descent will trail
behind almost level. The glider should be under this wake during the
descent.

Airbrakes should be kept unlocked and in hand, then deployed as
required for drag. The towrope must be kept tight.

The glider pilot should not be in a hurry to touchdown, but definitely
touch down just a bit before the towplane. Glider touch down while
the towplane is still higher than 1 meter may slow the towplane to
near stall.

Towpilots must understand the mission, particularly pattern shape,
power settings, descent rate and the options for go-around on tow.

I've done it many times at several sites after receiving excellent
instruction from Cindy at Caracole in California City many years ago.
Training is the key for all glider pilots and towpilots for this
maneuver.

Should we ask FAA to eliminate this requirement? NO, we don't need
the FAA digging into our PTS.

Do I require this maneuver at Marfa, Texas on your Practical Test
(checkride)?

Come visit! I'll show you a good time, and help you toward your
goals.

Burt Compton, Master CFI / FAA Designated Pilot Examiner
Marfa Gliders Soaring Center, southwest Texas
www.flygliders.com

On Nov 12, 8:58*am, Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:


Towpilots must understand the mission, particularly pattern shape,
power settings, descent rate and the options for go-around on tow.


I thought a regular descent rate and tighter than normal pattern was
standard.

On Nov 12, 6:58*am, Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Tom Knauff says the rare double release failure has occurred.
On your checkride, it is required -- sort of.


Burt:
I'll invite you for some refresher training . . .
(gentle smile)

and since it is non-fly season in some parts of the world, and folks
are still seeking their flight training from a monitor, I will add
details
that I have written before, and do not occur in any published
soaring text of which I am aware.

I am aware of several single release failures on gliders, both SGS
and Tost mechanisms, for many causes. I am aware of a couple
failures to release on tugs.

Why do a few of us offer this training?
To improve understanding of many concepts in towed flight,
descents, maneuvers, respect for the tugs contribution/training,
proficiency in signals/conversations, broadening skills and
confidence, enthralling power pilot observers.

We also recall this if for TRAINING, not for real, and we supervisors
(hopefully) recall we can abort the exercise by pulling the release,
should the learner need more ground school or proficiency,
if it gets messy or we are uncomfortable about our ability to remain
assured of a safe outcome. I recommend only one new person/greenhorn
being introduced into the 3-person procedure at a time. A two seater
tug is nice for tow pilot training also. (Love them Cessnas.)


Some important points.

The wake (prop wash / wing wash) of the towplane in descent will trail
behind almost level. *The glider should be under this wake during the
descent.

This is nice, less unsettling for the "learner". But it is the second
step.

Airbrakes should be kept unlocked and in hand, then deployed as
required for drag. * The towrope must be kept tight.

After you tell the tug you cannot release, and he brought you home....
adjacent the airfield, and he discovered he couldn't
release you, then he tells you he cannot release.
Yes, there is a US standard signal for this.

After the tug told you he couldn't release, it is the glider's option
to break the
line or request a descent on tow. How will the tug know which you
prefer?
With NORDO, you make the descent configuration, 75% spoilers open.
With RDO, you still make the descent configuration, 75% spoilers open.

This will work in anything from 2-33s to Duo Discus. No one has
offered me
a Schempp 3D or similar, but I would wager the tow price it works just
fine.
But, I do prefer my tug driver has training or supervision also.


The glider pilot should not be in a hurry to touchdown, but definitely
touch down just a bit before the towplane. *Glider touch down while
the towplane is still higher than 1 meter may slow the towplane to
near stall.

THE most common misconception, perpetrated by a single line in a
couple
training manuals is the thought that the gliders 'need' to touch
first.
A glider typically has a slower stall speed than a tug, more so in
ground
effect. Whoever touches first is irrelevant, as long as neither does
anything
very quickly.

Personally, I have had more gliderpilots screw up rushing the touch,
into a PIO,
than had trouble with the tug who is very reluctant to have a glider
rear-end him.

If the glider touches first , only use enough brake to keep the line
taut.
The tug made his approach carrying power to maintain a minimal sink
rate
on descent, like less than 300-400 fpm. The tug may be fine tuning
his
graceful touch while easing the power off very gently. (Long runways
are
appreciated for this exercise).
The tug should check aft to confirm the glider is landed/rolling
before
continuing easing power off, allowing the glider to keep the line
taut.


Towpilots must understand the mission, particularly pattern shape,
power settings, descent rate and the options for go-around on tow.

I've done it many times at several sites after receiving excellent
instruction from Cindy at Caracole in California City many years ago.
Training is the key for all glider pilots and towpilots for this
maneuver.

And there is value in refresher-recurrent training for anything rarely
reviewed.


Should we ask FAA to eliminate this requirement? *NO, we don't need
the FAA digging into our PTS.

AMEN.

Do I require this maneuver at Marfa, Texas on your Practical Test
(checkride)?
Awwww - you hedged!

Come visit! *I'll show you a good time, and help you toward your
goals.

Sure he will.
And so will we.
And we can show you how to break your legal limit tow rope
without scaring you, your glider A&P, or the tuggie.

Cindy B

www.caracolesoaring.com

Cindy,

Any thoughts on the subject procedure for those of us who fly the PIK-20B, 1-35 or HP-14?

Wayne

"CindyB" wrote in message ...
On Nov 12, 6:58 am, Burt Compton - Marfa wrote:
Tom Knauff says the rare double release failure has occurred.
On your checkride, it is required -- sort of.


Burt:
I'll invite you for some refresher training . . .
(gentle smile)

and since it is non-fly season in some parts of the world, and folks
are still seeking their flight training from a monitor, I will add
details
that I have written before, and do not occur in any published
soaring text of which I am aware.

I am aware of several single release failures on gliders, both SGS
and Tost mechanisms, for many causes. I am aware of a couple
failures to release on tugs.

Why do a few of us offer this training?
To improve understanding of many concepts in towed flight,
descents, maneuvers, respect for the tugs contribution/training,
proficiency in signals/conversations, broadening skills and
confidence, enthralling power pilot observers.

We also recall this if for TRAINING, not for real, and we supervisors
(hopefully) recall we can abort the exercise by pulling the release,
should the learner need more ground school or proficiency,
if it gets messy or we are uncomfortable about our ability to remain
assured of a safe outcome. I recommend only one new person/greenhorn
being introduced into the 3-person procedure at a time. A two seater
tug is nice for tow pilot training also. (Love them Cessnas.)


Some important points.

The wake (prop wash / wing wash) of the towplane in descent will trail
behind almost level. The glider should be under this wake during the
descent.

This is nice, less unsettling for the "learner". But it is the second
step.

Airbrakes should be kept unlocked and in hand, then deployed as
required for drag. The towrope must be kept tight.

After you tell the tug you cannot release, and he brought you home....
adjacent the airfield, and he discovered he couldn't
release you, then he tells you he cannot release.
Yes, there is a US standard signal for this.

After the tug told you he couldn't release, it is the glider's option
to break the
line or request a descent on tow. How will the tug know which you
prefer?
With NORDO, you make the descent configuration, 75% spoilers open.
With RDO, you still make the descent configuration, 75% spoilers open.

This will work in anything from 2-33s to Duo Discus. No one has
offered me
a Schempp 3D or similar, but I would wager the tow price it works just
fine.
But, I do prefer my tug driver has training or supervision also.


The glider pilot should not be in a hurry to touchdown, but definitely
touch down just a bit before the towplane. Glider touch down while
the towplane is still higher than 1 meter may slow the towplane to
near stall.

THE most common misconception, perpetrated by a single line in a
couple
training manuals is the thought that the gliders 'need' to touch
first.
A glider typically has a slower stall speed than a tug, more so in
ground
effect. Whoever touches first is irrelevant, as long as neither does
anything
very quickly.

Personally, I have had more gliderpilots screw up rushing the touch,
into a PIO,
than had trouble with the tug who is very reluctant to have a glider
rear-end him.

If the glider touches first , only use enough brake to keep the line
taut.
The tug made his approach carrying power to maintain a minimal sink
rate
on descent, like less than 300-400 fpm. The tug may be fine tuning
his
graceful touch while easing the power off very gently. (Long runways
are
appreciated for this exercise).
The tug should check aft to confirm the glider is landed/rolling
before
continuing easing power off, allowing the glider to keep the line
taut.


Towpilots must understand the mission, particularly pattern shape,
power settings, descent rate and the options for go-around on tow.

I've done it many times at several sites after receiving excellent
instruction from Cindy at Caracole in California City many years ago.
Training is the key for all glider pilots and towpilots for this
maneuver.

And there is value in refresher-recurrent training for anything rarely
reviewed.


Should we ask FAA to eliminate this requirement? NO, we don't need
the FAA digging into our PTS.

AMEN.

Do I require this maneuver at Marfa, Texas on your Practical Test
(checkride)?
Awwww - you hedged!

Come visit! I'll show you a good time, and help you toward your
goals.

Sure he will.
And so will we.
And we can show you how to break your legal limit tow rope
without scaring you, your glider A&P, or the tuggie.

Cindy B

www.caracolesoaring.com

Well - try it in a spoiler equipped, dual flown ship first.
Learn the procedures.
Make sure your tuggie knows the procedures.
This was a discussion about training, not experimentation.

Why should LOT be any different using a different
drag/descent tool? Flaps may be 'more' draggy, but you are already
used
to the quicker decel and settle-on for landing.
The tug driver will be the one doing the compensating,
not you very much.

Just be smoooooth in the configuration change for descent,
and anticipate the pitch/trim changes necessary to remain
steady in towing position. And you had best also be proficient
with slipping with flaps, as the supplemental drag tool, rather than
changing configurations/lift/drag abruptly.

And if you are not happy with the idea, learn to break a rope,
safely, calmly, under supervision - please not 'self-taught.'

Cindy


On Nov 13, 6:18*am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
Cindy,

Any thoughts on the subject procedure for those of us who fly the PIK-20B, 1-35 or HP-14?

Wayne

"CindyB" wrote in ...

SNIPPED

Why do a few of us offer this training?
To improve understanding of many concepts in towed flight,
descents, maneuvers, respect for the tugs contribution/training,
proficiency in signals/conversations, broadening skills and
confidence, enthralling power pilot observers.

We also recall this if for TRAINING, not for real, and we supervisors
(hopefully) recall we can abort the exercise by pulling the release,
*should the learner need more ground school or proficiency,
*if it gets messy or we are uncomfortable about our ability to remain
assured of a safe outcome. *I recommend only one new person/greenhorn

SNIPPED off