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Cell phone regulation on airlines?
"DaveC" wrote in message al.net... Cell phone usage is restricted on all domestic commercial flights by the FAA, so the flight attendant keeps telling me. The regulation against using electronic devices that have not been determined by the operator to be harmless pre-dates the invention of cellular phones. The text of the regulation is: § 121.306 Portable electronic devices. (a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any U.S.-registered civil aircraft operating under this part. (b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to- (1) Portable voice recorders; (2) Hearing aids; (3) Heart pacemakers; (4) Electric shavers; or (5) Any other portable electronic device that the part 119 certificate holder has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used. (c) The determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that part 119 certificate holder operating the particular device to be used. The FCC prohibits using cellular phones on aircraft, but that applies only to cellular phones, few of which exist any more. Most modern 'cellular' phones are in fact PCS phones, which are not subject to that regulation. This ban was created when the regulations for cellular phones were first written and was not included in the regulations for PCS phones. Anyway, cellular phones are specifically banned by the FCC and few flight attendants are probably willing or able to verify whether a particular phone is covered by the regulation or not, while all portable electronic devices are banned by the FAA unless the air carrier has determined that they will not be harmful. Few air carriers are probably willing to test every type and model of electronic device for radio interference, but most of them have no problem with pocket calculators, laptop computers, and the like, even though a laptop computer or PDA with Bluetooth or WiFi would seem to be a potential problem. |
#2
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DaveC wrote:
Cell phone usage is restricted on all domestic commercial flights by the FAA, so the flight attendant keeps telling me. Nope. The FAA rules have not changed on this, nor have the FCC ones. You can't use Advanced Mobile Phone Service (i.e., traditional cellular) airborne. That is an FCC rule. The FAA rule is just that the airline (i.e., the operator) must determine when electronic devices are safe to use. The only thing that has really changed is the "conventional wisdom" on the FAA's part got a little tighter after some supposed interference issues (primarily blamed on laptops) a few years back. Is cell phone usage also restricted on private jets, etc. for similar reasons? Yes, all airborne use is prohibited. On cell phones permanently installed on private jets, there has to be a warning label attached to prohibit it's use in the air. (FCC rule). So my question... what is the technical reason for restriction of cell phone us on commercial flights? Is this reason valid, technically? Or is it simply an excuse to force anyone who needs to make a call to use the airline's on-board phones (and pay their outrageous rates)? Forcing you to use the Airphones is the least of the FAA's or the FCC's concern. The real reason is that the cellular phone industry does not want you to. Their bread and butter is the ground based caller, and their systems are not designed to work with callers that have some altitude on the system (there are techncial deficiencies in this that I won't go into unless you really want to know). As a matter of fact, the cellular industry fought a company who wanted to share the spectrum tooth-and-nail over airborne use. Oddly, this prohibition is NOT written into the rules for the newer wireless services (PCS, NEXTEL, etc...) that operate outside the AMPS (800MHz) band. However, most of the carriers with these services still discourate airborne use. |
#3
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I noticed on the evening news the other night that someone is trying to get
a modular mobile "cell tower" approved that would be installed in commercial aircraft so that passengers can use their own mobile phones. It will be interesting to see how the FCC and FAA handle this one. -- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love America "Ron Natalie" wrote in message m... DaveC wrote: Cell phone usage is restricted on all domestic commercial flights by the FAA, so the flight attendant keeps telling me. Nope. The FAA rules have not changed on this, nor have the FCC ones. You can't use Advanced Mobile Phone Service (i.e., traditional cellular) airborne. That is an FCC rule. The FAA rule is just that the airline (i.e., the operator) must determine when electronic devices are safe to use. The only thing that has really changed is the "conventional wisdom" on the FAA's part got a little tighter after some supposed interference issues (primarily blamed on laptops) a few years back. Is cell phone usage also restricted on private jets, etc. for similar reasons? Yes, all airborne use is prohibited. On cell phones permanently installed on private jets, there has to be a warning label attached to prohibit it's use in the air. (FCC rule). So my question... what is the technical reason for restriction of cell phone us on commercial flights? Is this reason valid, technically? Or is it simply an excuse to force anyone who needs to make a call to use the airline's on-board phones (and pay their outrageous rates)? Forcing you to use the Airphones is the least of the FAA's or the FCC's concern. The real reason is that the cellular phone industry does not want you to. Their bread and butter is the ground based caller, and their systems are not designed to work with callers that have some altitude on the system (there are techncial deficiencies in this that I won't go into unless you really want to know). As a matter of fact, the cellular industry fought a company who wanted to share the spectrum tooth-and-nail over airborne use. Oddly, this prohibition is NOT written into the rules for the newer wireless services (PCS, NEXTEL, etc...) that operate outside the AMPS (800MHz) band. However, most of the carriers with these services still discourate airborne use. |
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"Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message ... I noticed on the evening news the other night that someone is trying to get a modular mobile "cell tower" approved that would be installed in commercial aircraft so that passengers can use their own mobile phones. It will be interesting to see how the FCC and FAA handle this one. -- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) Still won't work. The frequency the cell in the air is on, will be hitting dozens of towers on the ground, making them unable to use that frequency for other users on the land. -- Jim in NC --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.774 / Virus Database: 521 - Release Date: 10/7/2004 |
#5
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Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from
several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell phone tower into the airliner. As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in the boondocks. By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be minimal. I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained to me. Brian "Morgans" wrote in message ... "Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message ... I noticed on the evening news the other night that someone is trying to get a modular mobile "cell tower" approved that would be installed in commercial aircraft so that passengers can use their own mobile phones. It will be interesting to see how the FCC and FAA handle this one. -- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) Still won't work. The frequency the cell in the air is on, will be hitting dozens of towers on the ground, making them unable to use that frequency for other users on the land. |
#6
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Brian Case wrote:
As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in the boondocks. The cellular phone does use an adaptive power control (it's not tied to the signal strength bar). The problem is that even at mimimal power, if you're sitting close to the window, you can be heard equally well by a large number of cells over the system. There's nothing magic that they can do to stop this short of rf shielding the aircraft windows somehow. |
#7
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Brian Case wrote:
As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in the boondocks. The cellular phone does use an adaptive power control (it's not tied to the signal strength bar). The problem is that even at mimimal power, if you're sitting close to the window, you can be heard equally well by a large number of cells over the system. There's nothing magic that they can do to stop this short of rf shielding the aircraft windows somehow. |
#8
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"Brian Case" wrote in message om... Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell phone tower into the airliner. As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in the boondocks. By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be minimal. I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained to me. Brian I could see the possibilities of strong enough signal not reaching the ground to cause problems, but...... Which company (Of the multitudes) will you have to belong to, to get your phone to work? How will the plane's system communicate with the ground? By cell tower? g -- Jim in NC --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.774 / Virus Database: 521 - Release Date: 10/7/2004 |
#9
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"Brian Case" wrote in message om... Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell phone tower into the airliner. As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in the boondocks. By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be minimal. I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained to me. Brian I could see the possibilities of strong enough signal not reaching the ground to cause problems, but...... Which company (Of the multitudes) will you have to belong to, to get your phone to work? How will the plane's system communicate with the ground? By cell tower? g -- Jim in NC --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.774 / Virus Database: 521 - Release Date: 10/7/2004 |
#10
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The only thing that I see wrong with this is that the cell "tower" needs
to connect to the wired phone system. We know that it can't be hardwired, that would be one hell of a long cable! So, as the "tower" needs to transmit and receive (transceiver) from other transceivers on the ground that are hardwired to the phone system. You can put the ground transceivers on a different frequency pairs, but that's a whole new world wide system! Brian Case wrote: Actually it could work very well, and I have seen this proposal from several different sources. The Idea is to install a low power cell phone tower into the airliner. As I understand it that signal bar you see on you Cell phone is dictates how much power the cell phone uses to transmit. So the closer you are to the tower the less power it uses to transmit. This is why you phone batteries probably last longer in town than the do out in the boondocks. By installing the tower in the aircraft you are only a few hundred feet from the tower (at the most). The Cell phones will get an excellent signal from it and will drop to the lowest transmit power setting, Thus the interference with towers on the ground should be minimal. I am not an expert on these, I am just repeating how it was explained to me. Brian "Morgans" wrote in message ... "Bob Chilcoat" wrote in message ... I noticed on the evening news the other night that someone is trying to get a modular mobile "cell tower" approved that would be installed in commercial aircraft so that passengers can use their own mobile phones. It will be interesting to see how the FCC and FAA handle this one. -- Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways) Still won't work. The frequency the cell in the air is on, will be hitting dozens of towers on the ground, making them unable to use that frequency for other users on the land. |
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