midair in Bay Area Nov 7

On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 19:11:54 -0800, jfitch wrote:

Do you realize how irrational that comment is? It is entirely up to the
pilot to update, they have a year to do it (firmware works for 2 years
with a year overlap).

I'm somewhat surprised that checking the FLARM software version isn't
part of your annual. It is he if FLARM is installed the software must
be up to date to get the annual signed off.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

We could try and work together as a group on this non functioning Flarm problem.
If your Flarm or a friends doesn't work as it should , which is Really well, get some help or give some help to fix it until it does. This mid air is exactly what Flarm was designed to prevent!
But it takes two to Tango. I understand that in Carbon Fuselage ships the install is very important, but obviously that has been worked out a long time ago.
FWIW in my fiberglass LS3a my Flarm has worked well from day 1. It is very easy to update it, and as Ramy stated even if you don't know how to use it, turn it on. The "Lady " will tell you where the traffic is if you have it connected to a talking display. This accident was exactly what Flarm was and could have been for. Its too bad Flarm WAS installed in both ships, but one owner didn't keep his operating.
Both those guys got lucky, very lucky.
Nick
T

Guy Acheson wrote on 11/16/2020 7:19 PM:
OK...I am ready to get flamed.
I have flown with a PowerFlarm for several years.
False alarms. Searching frantically for aircraft that I just never see or do not exist.
Flying with a group, all with Flarm, and several do not show on my screen because they have carbon fuselages and antennas that are blocked.
Flying head to head with another Flarm aircraft and no display.
Having other pilots inform me that they saw my plane on their screens when I was not flying...multiple times!
The programing and configuration issues are just too much.
My system is updated and confirmed with and by experts.
But, most are not.
For me, it has not been a dependable, reliable, predictable piece of equipment.
My experiences in France have been much better.
My understanding is that those systems are overseen/verified/inspected by aircraft mechanics.
Here in the USA...the Flarm system mostly increases my anxiety and complicates my flying day.

It is unfortunate that your experience with Flarm is so poor. I have flown with Flarm for many
years and ...

-essentially no false alarms: there is always a glider there when I have an alarm.
-when flying in a "group" (which I think means gliders less than a mile away, going the same
direction and thermalling together) all the gliders always show on my Flarm. Most of them are
carbon gliders.
-Head to Head: the other glider always shows (my antennas are in the nose, so forward is the best)
-I programed it once and used it that way for years, still do
-I update it once a year, it's easy (I do have read the instructions each time)

I have no explanation for why our experiences are so different, but I think your experience is
extreme. Perhaps your installation is much of the problem, and it should be reviewed by a
different expert, even a pilot with experience using several systems.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

I agree that your installation may be suspect. You might try downloading some of your flights and running them through the Flarm Range Analysis tool. The results may point out where you have blind spots due to installation issues. If that doesn't help, an instrument evaluation by Richard at Craggy Aero might be an obvious next step. Your Config file may also have some of the range and altitude settings either too low, or possibly some features are not enabled. I had some problems early on, especially when using an early version of the Configuration tool. Richard looked at the file and set it up correctly. And the issues went away. Of course, some of the appearance/disappearance problems may be from the opposing glider's own installation inadequacies. Flarm has been a great addition to my cockpit, especially with the targets showing on the LX9000.

At 04:03 17 November 2020, Gregg Ballou wrote:
Have there been any glider mid airs in the last few years where the
gliders
didn't have Flarm?


I can't directly answer this question but very nearly had one myself this
summer.

Was flying near Col de Carro in French Alps. Ground there is about 3-
3200 metres, Cloudbase I recall being around 3800 so not a huge
amount of room. There were alot of gliders in the area, I could see at
least 7/8. Three were below and in front of me in a thermal and I
planned to pass above their thermal. Flarm was giving me collision
warnings and I (WRONGLY!) assumed it was the gliders in front of me.

I then saw another glider at 90 degrees to my track heading straight for
my wing tip at exactly the same level. They were horribly close and I do
not know how we did not collide.

The experience has reinforced something said to me, as a a student
many many years ago, pre Flarm but just as relevant ' Don't
concentrate on the gliders you have seen. You're not likely to collide
with them. Keep looking for the ones you haven't seen.' (Thanks Mike
Pirie)

On 11/16/20 6:10 PM, Ramy wrote:
One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware.

I wonder how many personal injury attorneys saw that statement...

--
Dan
5J

Having other pilots inform me that they saw my plane on their screens when I was not flying...multiple times!
Sounds very strange, but thinking that could be a flarmnet registration problem where someone else may have your contest id?

Otherwise, early on, I had a lot of strange issues until I took apart my antenna and found it was essentially disconnected inside the antenna housing ...a manufacturing flaw.
Which means for about 1 year I had been flying around with no antenna...and the thing actually still worked but with only 1/2 mile range. Once I got a new antenna, pflarm has worked like a champ and the ADSB-in feature is tremendous these days when most if not all powered aircraft have ADSB-out.
Darren

On 11/16/20 6:51 PM, George Haeh wrote:
Yikes! This is the THIRD collision I've heard of in the last year and a half between PowerFLARM equipped aircraft where one of the PowerFLARMs is not working. In the first two cases the towplane PowerFLARM was not operating, one because of undisclosed issues, the other because the towpilot was taxiing back to the hangar without turning on the PowerFLARM when a glider at the end of its landing run pulled in front.

3 Missed Opportunities
5 Write Offs
2 Fatalities
1 Hospitalisation

How much has/will your insurance go(ne) up ?


Kinda makes one wonder how many of these collisions would have happened
in the era before Flarm. You know, when pilots actually looked outside
more often.

--
Dan
5J

On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 8:06:00 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
On 11/16/20 6:10 PM, Ramy wrote:
One of the flarms was inop due to expired firmware.
I wonder how many personal injury attorneys saw that statement...

--
Dan
5J
Flarm is voluntary installation after all.
The pilot with the operating flarm was not injured.
The point here is not to put blame.
Every year I hear of multiple expired firmwares, including that very same day he wasn’t the only one.
There is an awareness and confusion issue which we need to address.
I am planning to always have the latest firmware on a USB stick with me (without my config file!) and periodically ask my buddies at the airport if they upgraded the firmware this year, if not, will upgrade it for them on the spot.

Ramy

On 11/16/20 8:19 PM, Guy Acheson wrote:
OK...I am ready to get flamed.
I have flown with a PowerFlarm for several years.
False alarms. Searching frantically for aircraft that I just never see or do not exist.
Flying with a group, all with Flarm, and several do not show on my screen because they have carbon fuselages and antennas that are blocked.
Flying head to head with another Flarm aircraft and no display.
Having other pilots inform me that they saw my plane on their screens when I was not flying...multiple times!
The programing and configuration issues are just too much.
My system is updated and confirmed with and by experts.
But, most are not.
For me, it has not been a dependable, reliable, predictable piece of equipment.
My experiences in France have been much better.
My understanding is that those systems are overseen/verified/inspected by aircraft mechanics.
Here in the USA...the Flarm system mostly increases my anxiety and complicates my flying day.


I chose to respond here because I've experienced a lot of the above.

My biggest complaint with Flarm is that ,when flying along with a friend
a hundred or so yards apart, co-altitude and not in any danger of a
collision, the thing screams continuously about an imminent threat. If
I could only have the ability to selectively silence the alarm of my choice.

I'd also like to have the ability to transmit on both antennae. Can
anyone explain why the US FCC prohibits that capability? Having a
carbon fuselage, I can receive transmitters from below via an external
blade antenna but they can't receive my glare shield mounted "A" antenna.

And for those who don't want a blade antenna on the belly, how about a
stick on copper dipole strip cut to the right length? Not being
vertically polarized means that it won't be optimum, but it'd be better
than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

--
Dan
5J