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#1
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
For the benefit of the group, let's hear about what works for
re-attaching mylar. I had an older generation sailplane that when I got it had fabric tape for sealing the ailerons and elevator, but it was due for replacement so the upgrade was to mylar. Removed the old tape and used acetone with lots of elbow grease and paper towels to remove the gum residue from the tape. We used "Tessa Tape" from W&W and applied that and prior to removing the backing pressed it down onto the gelcoat very firmly. Then we put the mylar onto that and pressed it down firmly again. Followed that with the safety tape and no issues for 4 years. With that said, I later bought a factory glider and within 1.5 years a portion of mylar was coming up on a short stretch of aileron. I removed the mylar, cleaned with acetone, followed the same procedure as above and that section was again coming up about 1.5 years later. The tessa tape is very sticky stuff. I did not scuff the mylar in either case, but in the second case, the mylar was pulling up from the tape, not the tape pulling up from the gelcoat. |
#2
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
Gary Emerson wrote:
For the benefit of the group, let's hear about what works for re-attaching mylar. I had an older generation sailplane that when I got it had fabric tape for sealing the ailerons and elevator, but it was due for replacement so the upgrade was to mylar. Removed the old tape and used acetone with lots of elbow grease and paper towels to remove the gum residue from the tape. We used "Tessa Tape" from W&W and applied that and prior to removing the backing pressed it down onto the gelcoat very firmly. Then we put the mylar onto that and pressed it down firmly again. Followed that with the safety tape and no issues for 4 years. With that said, I later bought a factory glider and within 1.5 years a portion of mylar was coming up on a short stretch of aileron. I removed the mylar, cleaned with acetone, followed the same procedure as above and that section was again coming up about 1.5 years later. The tessa tape is very sticky stuff. I did not scuff the mylar in either case, but in the second case, the mylar was pulling up from the tape, not the tape pulling up from the gelcoat. I would be very careful about using Acetone on a glider, depending on the construction you could do damage. Reliable sources indicate that acetone can penetrate the structure and damage the foam core in GRP/foam sandwich structures. Not being a composites specialist I can't comment. Just try to use something a little less aggressive - like MEK. Any experts out there? |
#3
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
"Bruce Greef" wrote in message
: snip I would be very careful about using Acetone on a glider, depending on the construction you could do damage. Reliable sources indicate that acetone can penetrate the structure and damage the foam core in GRP/foam sandwich structures. Not being a composites specialist I can't comment. Just try to use something a little less aggressive - like MEK. Any experts out there? Bruce, not an expert. but I have personal first hand experience that repair specialists use acetone routinely to clean composites when working with gelcoat and uncoated GRP/foam. If you soaked the composite or left it on there a long time, I could see where perhaps it could damage something underneath, but a brief exposure for cleaning would appear to be OK. Larry "01" USA |
#4
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
Bruce Greef wrote:
I would be very careful about using Acetone on a glider, depending on the construction you could do damage. Reliable sources indicate that acetone can penetrate the structure and damage the foam core in GRP/foam sandwich structures. I'd agree. Speaking as a model builder who molds his own composite structures for wing D-boxes and fuselages, I'd like to make the following points: - the glass/carbon skin *should* be impervious to liquids but you never know. The problem with making light, strong composites is to get excess resin out of the layup after you've wetted out the glass or carbon. If the wetting is thorough then blotting out as much resin as possible and then curing under vacuum will leave you with a compacted structure with no pinholes etc. However, if the wetting wasn't right you will get starved looking patches that may well be porous. - Model dope thinner is mostly acetone. This dissolves white polystyrene foam almost instantly. A standard way of making complex one-off glass fuselage shells, fuel tanks etc. is to carve the shape from white foam, cover it with glass cloth and epoxy and, when the epoxy is cured, pour thinners onto the foam. Result: an empty shell all ready for finishing. - acetone wets composite surfaces really well and will wick through the finest pores or cracks. The moral is to test any unknown liquid of a scrap of foam (if you can get one) before putting it on your glider unless you're certain that the area you're working on is absolutely impervious to liquids *and* you're sure the liquid can't run onto any part of the structure that might be porous, cracked or has poorly adhering glue lines. HTH -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#5
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
Bruce Greef wrote: .. I would be very careful about using Acetone on a glider, depending on the construction you could do damage. Reliable sources indicate that acetone can penetrate the structure and damage the foam core in GRP/foam sandwich structures. Not being a composites specialist I can't comment. Just try to use something a little less aggressive - like MEK. Any experts out there? I'm not going to call myself an expert but MEK is a much More Agressive solvent on many substances. If I recall correctly many gelcoats are styrene based. MEK will dissolve styrene quite readily, actually it is was is used for model glue. MEK also seems to disolve brain cells too, which may or may not be a problem depending on what memories you want to keep. Chris |
#6
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
FRP is not a tight surface *at all* (even if you don't see any pores).
Soaking a FRP part in acetone is certainly not a good idea. However, wiping such a surface with acetone to remove grease or whatever doesn't put a problem because the thin film of aceton left behind will rapidly evaporate from the surface. On gelcoat, however, I wouldn't use acetone, but rather ethyl alcohol. "Martin Gregorie" wrote in message ... Bruce Greef wrote: I would be very careful about using Acetone on a glider, depending on the construction you could do damage. Reliable sources indicate that acetone can penetrate the structure and damage the foam core in GRP/foam sandwich structures. I'd agree. Speaking as a model builder who molds his own composite structures for wing D-boxes and fuselages, I'd like to make the following points: - the glass/carbon skin *should* be impervious to liquids but you never know. The problem with making light, strong composites is to get excess resin out of the layup after you've wetted out the glass or carbon. If the wetting is thorough then blotting out as much resin as possible and then curing under vacuum will leave you with a compacted structure with no pinholes etc. However, if the wetting wasn't right you will get starved looking patches that may well be porous. - Model dope thinner is mostly acetone. This dissolves white polystyrene foam almost instantly. A standard way of making complex one-off glass fuselage shells, fuel tanks etc. is to carve the shape from white foam, cover it with glass cloth and epoxy and, when the epoxy is cured, pour thinners onto the foam. Result: an empty shell all ready for finishing. - acetone wets composite surfaces really well and will wick through the finest pores or cracks. The moral is to test any unknown liquid of a scrap of foam (if you can get one) before putting it on your glider unless you're certain that the area you're working on is absolutely impervious to liquids *and* you're sure the liquid can't run onto any part of the structure that might be porous, cracked or has poorly adhering glue lines. HTH -- martin@ | Martin Gregorie gregorie. | Essex, UK org | |
#7
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
Gary Emerson wrote:
For the benefit of the group, let's hear about what works for re-attaching mylar. I had an older generation sailplane that when I got it had fabric tape for sealing the ailerons and elevator, but it was due for replacement so the upgrade was to mylar. Removed the old tape and used acetone with lots of elbow grease and paper towels to remove the gum residue from the tape. We used "Tessa Tape" from W&W and applied that and prior to removing the backing pressed it down onto the gelcoat very firmly. Then we put the mylar onto that and pressed it down firmly again. Followed that with the safety tape and no issues for 4 years. With that said, I later bought a factory glider and within 1.5 years a portion of mylar was coming up on a short stretch of aileron. I removed the mylar, cleaned with acetone, followed the same procedure as above and that section was again coming up about 1.5 years later. The tessa tape is very sticky stuff. I did not scuff the mylar in either case, but in the second case, the mylar was pulling up from the tape, not the tape pulling up from the gelcoat. Now that we've established that the only solvent safe to use on a composite glider is the sweat from a virgin Las Vegas showgirl, can anyone answer Gary's question? Thx, Shawn |
#8
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
Yikes.
I once had to do extensive re-repairs to a glider whe - a previous repairer had spliced in new wing skins - during the repair he liberally "cleaned" with MEK - the MEK went through the joint, and disolved the foam. This glider flew for a while, and when it was involved in another accident the skins all cracked in the areas where they were no longer supported by the foam core. All the replaced skin areas had to be re-spliced ! For heavens sake, if you aren't expert, don't go messing about with solvents you heard recommended on RAS. Someone could get hurt, maybe you. Be safe out there ! Best Regards, Dave Bruce Greef wrote: Not being a composites specialist I can't comment. Just try to use something a little less aggressive - like MEK. Any experts out there? |
#9
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
"Shawn" wrote in message . .. Gary Emerson wrote: For the benefit of the group, let's hear about what works for re-attaching mylar. Now that we've established that the only solvent safe to use on a composite glider is the sweat from a virgin Las Vegas showgirl, can anyone answer Gary's question? Thx, Shawn Hmmm, let me get the mental image here . . . Nah, ain't gonna find one of those I bet! I sort of thought we had answered Gary's question, but will add: If the double sided tape has come loose in just one spot, simply pushing it back down will not work or work for long. You might get away with raising the Mylar seal and quickly wiping the detached surfaces with a Q-tip dipped in Acetone. Then warm the surface and use pressure to re-bond the tape. This will work for a while . . . but is not a long term fix. If the debonded area is at the end of the tape, then remove the top seal tape and peel back the Mylar until you get past the debonded area (the Mylar doesn't come off easily). Tape the Mylar out of the way. Remove the old double sided tape in the affected area. If there's adhesive residue to deal with, before trying solvents, try using some packing tape or cloth tape like a "tack strip" - - apply tape to old residue, push down and then pull straight up. In many cases, sometimes after several applications of the tack strip, the old adhesive residue will be cleanly removed. Sand, clean, replace double sided tape as previously noted and as you would if replacing Mylars. all the best, bumper |
#10
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Mylar Adhesive "Best Practices"
bumper wrote: "Shawn" wrote in message . .. Gary Emerson wrote: For the benefit of the group, let's hear about what works for re-attaching mylar. Now that we've established that the only solvent safe to use on a composite glider is the sweat from a virgin Las Vegas showgirl, can anyone answer Gary's question? Thx, Shawn Hmmm, let me get the mental image here . . . Nah, ain't gonna find one of those I bet! I sort of thought we had answered Gary's question, but will add: If the double sided tape has come loose in just one spot, simply pushing it back down will not work or work for long. You might get away with raising the Mylar seal and quickly wiping the detached surfaces with a Q-tip dipped in Acetone. Then warm the surface and use pressure to re-bond the tape. This will work for a while . . . but is not a long term fix. If the debonded area is at the end of the tape, then remove the top seal tape and peel back the Mylar until you get past the debonded area (the Mylar doesn't come off easily). Tape the Mylar out of the way. Remove the old double sided tape in the affected area. If there's adhesive residue to deal with, before trying solvents, try using some packing tape or cloth tape like a "tack strip" - - apply tape to old residue, push down and then pull straight up. In many cases, sometimes after several applications of the tack strip, the old adhesive residue will be cleanly removed. Sand, clean, replace double sided tape as previously noted and as you would if replacing Mylars. all the best, bumper I have had experience removing tape adhesive using adhesive remover made by PPG and 3M. I don't have the part number in hand for these, but you can get information on the web. The adhesive remover does not contain acetone or MEK and is not nearly as volitile, however it is flammable. It states that it does not leave a residue. It must have time to evaporate thoroughly, before any new tape should be applied. Another possible adhesive remover is a citrus based "goof-off" or another citrus cleaner. Gel coat is micro porous, but the volitile fluids like acetone if used very sparingly on a clean rag should not cause issues with the sub structure. I agree to use caution if you are not sure, don't use it. When placing the new tape be sure the surface has no wax or any other residue. My tapes have held on fine for several years. I used the TESA tape from W& W's and new mylar with the seal tape over as described at length above. I used a plastic squeegee to smooth the pressure on the tape and had no voids in the adhesion. The whole assembly was then rubbed down and allowed to sit a couple of days before flying. This allowed the tape to achieve maximum adhesion charachteristics. I think the operative condition is clean and dry before applying new tape and seals. |
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