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Naval aviator & NFO attire while underway



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 1st 04, 01:38 AM
Paul Michael Brown
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Default Naval aviator & NFO attire while underway

Just started reading Sherwood's new book "Afterburner," about naval
aviation during the Vietnam War. While examining ready room photos of
various naval aviators and NFOs, I noticed many of them are *not* wearing
flight suits. Instead, they're wearing trousers, a web belt and a long
sleeve shirt that buttons up the front. (Sometimes this garb seems stiffly
starched. Other times it's sweat-stained and quite wrinkled.) The same
holds true for guys depicted in photos found in other books, such as the
two-volume series on MiG killers.

By way of contrast, whenever I see current day naval aviators and NFOs in
various TV documentaries shot while underway they are *invariably* wearing
flight suits in the ready room, dirty shirt wardroom, etc. Can anybody
explain the change in underway attire between the Vietnam era and today?
Is this controlled by a regulation? By the skipper? By some unwritten
tradition?
  #2  
Old July 1st 04, 06:33 AM
Yofuri
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Many commands had a rule that flight suits were only for flying and alert
standby. Also, spending a warm day in a Nomex flightsuit was an itchy
experience. Aviation Working Green trousers with khaki shirt and necktie
(sometimes) were usually acceptable as Uniform of the Day for aviation
officers and Chief Petty Officers. Many wearers, myself included, didn't
even own a green blouse because flight jackets were locally allowed with
greens. The Navy Relief Thrift Store usually had plenty of trousers in
stock.

Aviation Working Green was (is?) an optional uniform, not prescribable as
Uniform of the Day.

Rick

"Paul Michael Brown" wrote in message
news
Just started reading Sherwood's new book "Afterburner," about naval
aviation during the Vietnam War. While examining ready room photos of
various naval aviators and NFOs, I noticed many of them are *not* wearing
flight suits. Instead, they're wearing trousers, a web belt and a long
sleeve shirt that buttons up the front. (Sometimes this garb seems stiffly
starched. Other times it's sweat-stained and quite wrinkled.) The same
holds true for guys depicted in photos found in other books, such as the
two-volume series on MiG killers.

By way of contrast, whenever I see current day naval aviators and NFOs in
various TV documentaries shot while underway they are *invariably* wearing
flight suits in the ready room, dirty shirt wardroom, etc. Can anybody
explain the change in underway attire between the Vietnam era and today?
Is this controlled by a regulation? By the skipper? By some unwritten
tradition?



  #3  
Old July 1st 04, 02:03 PM
Pechs1
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pmb- While examining ready room photos of
various naval aviators and NFOs, I noticed many of them are *not* wearing
flight suits. Instead, they're wearing trousers, a web belt and a long
sleeve shirt that buttons up the front. BRBR

ahhhh, 'green bag syndrome. Depends on the command and CO. I have been in
squadrons where you had better be in khakis if not on the flght sked and others
where we didn't wear anything but a 'bag', as soon as the ship got underway.

Remember tho that in the USN, a flight suit is 'flight gear', not a 'uniform',
unlike the USAF, where it is.


P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
  #5  
Old July 3rd 04, 02:02 PM
Pechs1
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ray- Fortunately relieving us the embarrassing necessity of wearing a
scarf! BRBR

No kiddin' I wore one of those silly things while on USAF excange duty. Great
JOs, great jets, scary upper echelon and rules.
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
  #6  
Old July 12th 04, 10:42 PM
Tom Hayden
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"No kiddin' I wore one of those silly things while on USAF excange duty.
Great
JOs, great jets, scary upper echelon and rules.

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)"


Got any good stories about the AF JOs, jets, upper echelon or rules you'd
like to share with us?

Tom


  #7  
Old July 13th 04, 02:19 PM
Pechs1
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geezzzer- Got any good stories about the AF JOs, jets, upper echelon or rules
you'd
like to share with us? BRBR

Nothing major, Just stood tall before the wing commander for things like
rolling up my sleeves, wearing brown boots, flying too close when coming into
the overhead..

Many JOs leaving at this time(late 70's) for the airlines. Not a lot of happy
campers but really good pilots. I think there was more than a little SAC
tainted guys around that saw how wierd SAC was during the SE Asia war games.

Plus some O-6s that were transitioning to the F-4 for the first time that were
pretty scary. A B-52 suadron CO that was going to an F-4 wing in Germany.

How they chose their COs still amazes me. Wing Commander picks his COs. When
the Wing Commander is new all sorts of O-5s show up suddenly to rush those
jobs.

My Ops officer went across the state to a O-2 base to try to get a squadron
there, flying Cessna push-pulls, which were all down for shucking their aft
prop, taking off the tails...
P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
  #8  
Old July 13th 04, 10:32 PM
Tom Hayden
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"Plus some O-6s that were transitioning to the F-4 for the first time that
were
pretty scary. A B-52 suadron CO that was going to an F-4 wing in Germany."

I can imagine that WOULD be scary. Why would the AF even bother spending a
lot of time/effort/$ to transition someone that senior to a hot two-seater?
Didn't they have anyone already in the F-4 "community" (don't know if they
use this term) that would be qualified for command?

"How they chose their COs still amazes me. Wing Commander picks his COs.
When the Wing Commander is new all sorts of O-5s show up suddenly to rush
those jobs."

Sounds like a process that might have been left over from the 1930s. This
explains a story I just read in the latest issue of Flight Journal some
F-86 pilots in Korea who flew across the Yalu in small flights after
switching to alternate channels and turning off transponders so they
couldn't be easily tracked. The author was obviously a bit ****ed off and
make a remark about squadron COs and Wing Commander's favorites. Now I know
what he meant.

I wonder if this is still USAF practice?

Was exchange duty with the AF considered a prize or a booby prize for USN
pilots? How about the other way around?

By the way, have you ever read the book, "Boyd - The fighter pilot who
changed the art of war"? I bet you have. Comments? I bet you have.

Thanks, Pechs.

Tom



  #9  
Old July 14th 04, 05:58 AM
vincent p. norris
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Nothing major, Just stood tall before the wing commander for things like
rolling up my sleeves, wearing brown boots, flying too close when coming into
the overhead.


Brings back a happy memory. As a green, wet-behind-the-ears and
smart-ass Midshipman in F- Stage at Saufley Field, back in 1950, I was
scheduled to fly with an Air Force pilot on exchange duty named
Gschwandtner (unforgettable name). I had already "learned" that an
Air Force formation was "two or more airplanes going the same
direction on the same day," so I determined to show this guy how we
(budding) Naval Aviators fly formation.

So I hung in as close to him as I could and was delighted to read on
my "report card" that I "holds good formation but flies too close."

Made my day!

But the brown boots were strictly legal, were they not? Even we cadets
wore brown shoes, in those days.

vince norris
  #10  
Old July 14th 04, 02:15 PM
Pechs1
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geeweezer- Why would the AF even bother spending a
lot of time/effort/$ to transition someone that senior to a hot two-seater?
Didn't they have anyone already in the F-4 "community" (don't know if they
use this term) that would be qualified for command? BRBR

I doubt anybody knows how wing commanders are actually chosen in the USAF.
Seemed pretty arbitrary to me. No boards or 'tanks, like the USN.

No rewuirement to have a wing to be a general officer as well. AFAIK, my
CO(61st TFS), Mike Ryan, had that command only, then onto the staff world on
his way to CoS. great CO, BTW.

geeweezer- Was exchange duty with the AF considered a prize or a booby prize
for USN
pilots? How about the other way around? BRBR

It was a one for one trade, some USAF guy to the USN. Difference was I went to
a RTU, training squadron, flew in the trunk mostly where my USAF counterpart
was in a F-4 squadron, fleet type.
It allowed me to stay in the F-4 tho, instead of going to the training command
flying TA-4s.

P. C. Chisholm
CDR, USN(ret.)
Old Phart Phormer Phantom, Turkey, Viper, Scooter and Combat Buckeye Phlyer
 




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