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#1
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East River turning radius
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north
endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank. Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. --Gary |
#2
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East River turning radius
Gary Drescher wrote:
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). I have flown the Hudson River VFR corridor several times, but only flew the East River corridor once. My impression at the time was that a very tight turn is required to go back south to exit this corridor. -- Peter |
#3
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East River turning radius
"Gary Drescher" wrote in message . .. NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank. Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. only have to increase bank to 36 degrees to get under 1000' radius ( or slow to 81 kts) or go half way and 33 degrees bank and 85 kts. shouldnt be a problem in a 172 ( isnt that what you fly?) stall speed would still only be 55 kts. ( assuming 50 kts strait and level from memory) terry --Gary |
#4
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East River turning radius
"d&tm" wrote in message
... "Gary Drescher" wrote in message . .. NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank. Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. only have to increase bank to 36 degrees to get under 1000' radius ( or slow to 81 kts) or go half way and 33 degrees bank and 85 kts. shouldnt be a problem in a 172 ( isnt that what you fly?) stall speed would still only be 55 kts. ( assuming 50 kts strait and level from memory) terry Yup, I fly 172s and Arrows. But the folks in the news were in a Cirrus. In any case, the turn can certainly be executed--my point is just that the situation is unusual (outside of mountain flying) for the degree of planning that's required in order to make the turn safely. --Gary |
#5
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East River turning radius
I think that any pilot with the fears that you describe should go up with an
instructor and explore the low-speed end of the operating envelope until he or she is comfortable. "Fear" of stalling is based on lack of knowledge or experience, and I know from reading your posts that you do not fit into either category. Bob Gardner "Gary Drescher" wrote in message . .. NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank. Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. --Gary |
#6
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East River turning radius
Gary Drescher wrote:
NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank. Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. --Gary In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle. Immelman turn will also do ;-) |
#7
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East River turning radius
How is this turn any different (at all) then a tight traffic pattern?
Based on what I've seen, that's how it should be handled. Flaps down, Approach speed, stabalize... determine the winds, and make a nice crisp, 20 degree-of-bank turn into them. Hell, the 27L Left pattern at OAK is only 1800 feet wide (its 1800 feet from the numbers to the United Hangar used as reference), I've seen plenty of fast glass practicing on it with no problems (Including a full Base Leg (90 degree turn base, level off, 90 degree turn final)). This is a basic piloting skill. Gary Drescher wrote: NYC's East River is about 2000' wide. So when you approach the north endpoint of the VFR corridor there, you need to make a U turn with a 1000' radius (or less if you're not right next to the eastern shore when you start the turn). Suppose you're afraid to fly too slowly because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you cruise up the river at 90 knots. Suppose you're afraid to bank too steeply because you don't want to stall during the turn, so you use just a 30-degree bank. Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. --Gary |
#8
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East River turning radius
As soon as I heard East Side, Cirrus, building strike - I thought low
time pilot, hot aircraft, many distractions, wrong side of the VFR corridor having do the U-turn. I've lived on Roosevelt Island (middle of the East River just south of the turn) and flown the corridor in a 172. I early on decided never to fly the East River just because it's too tight and too filled with traffic. It's not unsafe, it's just unnecessarily challenging when the Hudson provides an equivalent experience. I don't know how you properly train for that flight.... Few of us spend much time flying within 1/4 mile of buildings and below their tops. All of us can make the necessary turn at 1,000 feet in Iowa. Most of us will find it catches your breath the first time you do it at 800 feet in a concrete canyon near so many millions of people. Low ceilings, some wind, some rapid fire Laguardia radio work in the background. It's pretty high excitement. I had flown many hours ridge soaring the Appalachins - 500 feet above valley floor, 2 wingspans from the trees, redlining at 155mph, 200 miles from homebase. Then I went out west. It took me 3 days of flying before I could get within a 1/4 mile of a Sierra peak, 5,000 feet above the valley floor, at 60 mph, 2 miles from takeoff. Vice-a-versa for western pilots flying the eastern hills. It's all in you head but it's all quite real. We already have the knowledge and skills to do it. We just have to get the quivering mass of grey matter to settle down enough to let the training take over. Gary Drescher wrote: Using the East River VFR corridor requires planning the turn carefully--especially since you need to leave an extra margin in case you have to dodge high-density traffic there. Yep. And not doing so can end up just like a guy in a used Porsche on a rain slicked road - they just don't scramble jets on the west coast while pulling the lifeless remains out of a Meadowlands swamp. No point here... just rambling. |
#9
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East River turning radius
"Stefano" wrote in message
.. . In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle. Immelman turn will also do ;-) Except that you're probably already close to the 1100' ceiling in this case. --Gary |
#10
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East River turning radius
Recently, Stefano posted:
Gary Drescher wrote: Oops: your turning radius is about 1200'. In occasions like these I was trained to do a chandelle. Immelman turn will also do ;-) Wow. You can do an Immelman in under 500'? Impressive! Neil |
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