Class mobility

On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 11:52:30 AM UTC-6, JS wrote:
On Thursday, December 6, 2018 at 9:31:11 AM UTC-8, Steve Leonard wrote:
Of interest to me is that it looks like only one person (Geoff Brown) chose to "span down" and is flying with his shorter span tips. Everyone else is flying with the longest span their plane can fly with. No ASG29s, JS3s, Ventus 2C or similar in 15 meter class. And the other JS1 is flying with his 21 meter tips on.

Also of interest to me is that all classes are handicapped.

Steve Leonard

Most of the JS1s are B models, 18m only.
All the LS8s are flying with baby wingtips. One D2C flying at 18m.
I like the feel of the 18m D2C full of water, but at high speed it doesn't go like something with flaps.
Jim

Yep, Jim, I was only speaking to the JS1c. One flying 18, one flying 21 meter. The one D2c also appears to be a turbo, so I am guessing he didn't want the really big wing loading hit if there were weak days. There are probably other Turbos that went "span up" for the same reason. And if you had an LS8 with 18 meter tips, I would think you would stick with the 15 meter ones because then you aren't going up against the flapped ships that are a generation or two newer than your plane. Yeah, they are racing against same span flapped wing ships in the "combined to make 15 meter" class, but their real competition is the Standard Class. They are more like me as "score sheet filler" in the 15 meter class. Yes, I see them in 3rd and 4th, but 800 points back.

Sure wish I was there, as it look like the weather has been good! May not see a thermal here in the flatlands of the US for another 2-3 months.

Steve Leonard

“
Of interest to me is that it looks like only one person (Geoff Brown) chose to "span down" and is flying with his shorter span tips. Everyone else is flying with the longest span their plane can fly with. No ASG29s, JS3s, Ventus 2C or similar in 15 meter class. And the other JS1 is flying with his 21 meter tips on.

Also of interest to me is that all classes are handicapped.

Steve Leonard “

Geoff has only recently bought the 21M tips and not flown with them yet. Great pilot, was Chief of the Airforce before he retired. 😊
Tom

“Do these "phantom" classes give more FAI ranking points to pilots (4 winners instead of 2)? I dont see any other reason for this. “

No.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 4:24:15 AM UTC-6, wrote:
“
Of interest to me is that it looks like only one person (Geoff Brown) chose to "span down" and is flying with his shorter span tips. Everyone else is flying with the longest span their plane can fly with. No ASG29s, JS3s, Ventus 2C or similar in 15 meter class. And the other JS1 is flying with his 21 meter tips on.

Also of interest to me is that all classes are handicapped.

Steve Leonard “

Geoff has only recently bought the 21M tips and not flown with them yet. Great pilot, was Chief of the Airforce before he retired. 😊
Tom

Thanks for the information, Tom! All the best to you and Kerrie!

Steve Leonard

On Saturday, 8 December 2018 12:25:35 UTC+2, wrote:
“Do these "phantom" classes give more FAI ranking points to pilots (4 winners instead of 2)? I dont see any other reason for this. “

No.

Reading FAI ranking rules it sure does. Pilot quality factor, competition rating all are based on number of good pilots in same class. Put same pilots to multiple classes and you have very good phantom competition that gives a lot of ranking points. Very clever.

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, 8 December 2018 12:25:35 UTC+2, wrote:
“Do these "phantom" classes give more FAI ranking points to pilots (4 winners instead of 2)? I dont see any other reason for this. “

No.

Reading FAI ranking rules it sure does. Pilot quality factor, competition rating all are based on number of good pilots in same class. Put same pilots to multiple classes and you have very good phantom competition that gives a lot of ranking points. Very clever.

Where are the ranking rules to be found?

Who gets to decide if any given nation's rules are "close enough" to Annex A (or some other gold standard) to merit FAI rankings based on their nationals?

T8

lauantai 8. joulukuuta 2018 22.24.01 UTC+2 Tango Eight kirjoitti:
On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, 8 December 2018 12:25:35 UTC+2, wrote:
“Do these "phantom" classes give more FAI ranking points to pilots (4 winners instead of 2)? I dont see any other reason for this. “

No.

Reading FAI ranking rules it sure does. Pilot quality factor, competition rating all are based on number of good pilots in same class. Put same pilots to multiple classes and you have very good phantom competition that gives a lot of ranking points. Very clever.

Where are the ranking rules to be found?

Who gets to decide if any given nation's rules are "close enough" to Annex A (or some other gold standard) to merit FAI rankings based on their nationals?

T8

They are available online, you seriously want help in using google?

Originally Posted by Tango Eight

On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, 8 December 2018 12:25:35 UTC+2, wrote:
“Do these "phantom" classes give more FAI ranking points to pilots (4 winners instead of 2)? I dont see any other reason for this. “

No.

Reading FAI ranking rules it sure does. Pilot quality factor, competition rating all are based on number of good pilots in same class. Put same pilots to multiple classes and you have very good phantom competition that gives a lot of ranking points. Very clever.

Where are the ranking rules to be found?



Who gets to decide if any given nation's rules are "close enough" to Annex A (or some other gold standard) to merit FAI rankings based on their nationals?

T8

Hi Evan

Try this link http://rankingdata.fai.org/sc3d.pdf

Cheers
Colin

We merge classes in Italy too, when the number of participants is lowish. And we have rules defining classes with a minimum number of participants for the national title to be awarded to the winner.
So, let's say we have an Open Class national. We setup a handicapped competition, any glider can participate; then we score with handicap. The final result goes to the IGC-ranking system.
At the same time, we create a results sheet, without handicap factors as the Italian definition of the Open Class is such. Based on the final, we have a second prize-giving ceremony and a national champion has the title.

The IGC-ranking will not allow duplication of the results, so this latter results remain in the annals of the NAC but don't affect the IGC Ranking.

Now, surely all participants of the handicapped competition are considered in the Ranking's calculation of the value. There is a completely fair impact on the points awarded by the Ranking. The only ones who can complain are the Open Class pilots, who get handicapped scoring so they might in some particular occasion get less personal points if they're beaten by a lower performance sailplane. On the other hand, they most probably would get much less points if the class was segregated (due to small participation), not to mention they wouldn't get the Title due to less than 6 participants in Open Class only.

Seems fair for all. Of course nothing is perfect.
In my humble opinion, removing the minimum number of participants would encourage participation, rather than the contrary. Mine is a minority position however.
What seems to motivate large participation at our competitions is the expected value for the IGC ranking (more pilots, more highly qualified pilots), combined with a friendly atmosphere, a welcoming region with good food and accommodation, a well-known competition area for easy management of strategies, and lastly a reliable organizing team.

Aldo Cernezzi
(competition director)
www.voloavela.it

On Sunday, December 9, 2018 at 12:58:12 AM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
lauantai 8. joulukuuta 2018 22.24.01 UTC+2 Tango Eight kirjoitti:
On Saturday, December 8, 2018 at 1:11:50 PM UTC-5, krasw wrote:
On Saturday, 8 December 2018 12:25:35 UTC+2, wrote:
“Do these "phantom" classes give more FAI ranking points to pilots (4 winners instead of 2)? I dont see any other reason for this. “

No.

Reading FAI ranking rules it sure does. Pilot quality factor, competition rating all are based on number of good pilots in same class. Put same pilots to multiple classes and you have very good phantom competition that gives a lot of ranking points. Very clever.

Where are the ranking rules to be found?

Who gets to decide if any given nation's rules are "close enough" to Annex A (or some other gold standard) to merit FAI rankings based on their nationals?

T8

They are available online, you seriously want help in using google?

Merry Christmas to you as well.

T8