a Li-Ion in a lead acid world.

Hi Frank,
I looked twice at the Peak Battery site but could never find any
dimensions. Can you provide the dimensions or a link to that part of
the site?

When you say that the Peak battery is a lot safer, I'm not all that
convinced, because 1) I was never able to ignite the Li-Ion's other
than with a hammer, and 2) everyone is flying with Li-Ions, in cell
phones, iPaq's, Oudies, Socket Mobile power packs, etc. and I don't
hear of those catching on fire, ever. Not to mention all the Li-Ion's
sitting on job sites everywhere all night on chargers, if one burned
in Seattle I would know about it.
But I think that is something for each person to decide and I won't
attempt to convince anyone Li-Ion's are safe, just to consider how
many they are already flying with. One of the batteries I burned up
was from an Ipaq 3950 and it was clear that you Can Not survive such
an event without losing the canopy at a minimum. The smoke, not only
from the battery but from the plastic case and components goes on for
about 90 seconds, is very acrid, think burning tires. The youtube
videos don't do it justice, I think because they burn the battery only
and not a PDA/PNA at the same time which is where a lot of the smoke
comes from.

That being said, I would not go to an all Peak Battery solution
myself, too much expense. But the $140, 7ah version might be an option
for a back-up to a UB12150 VRLA ($40). I wonder what life you would
get out of the Peak Battery if you used it only 6 times per year?

Brian


Take a look at Scott Fletcher's article in this month's Soaring
Magazine. *While very expensive (about 5x), the Li-Fe-Po (Lithium-Iron-
Phosphate) battery pack is a lot better suited to soaring use than
either Li-ion or SLA batteries. *The K2 Energy (http://www.peakbattery.com/) 12V 10AH pack is the same size and form factor
as my regular UB1290 (12v 9.0AH SLA), and is considerably lighter. *It
is also (according to the company and some independent research) a lot
safer in that it won't explode or catch fire when abused. *Lastly, its
discharge curve runs between 13.2V fully charged to about 12.5V at end-
of-charge, making it a better fit for most avionics.

I bought one for my Ventus 2 because I am planning to install a
transponder this winter and a FLARM unit next spring, so will need
some additional amp-hours. *I plan to run with one SLA and one LiFePo
next year, and then get another K2 battery after the end of next
season.

Frank (TA)

On Nov 12, 8:33*am, sisu1a wrote:
* The Li-Ion battery I ended up with is he

http://www.dinodirect.com/Super-9000...ion-Battery-fo...
Hope it was worth the read,

Other than price, is there a compelling reason to use Li-Ion batteries
instead of LiFeP04 batteries like these?http://www.batteryspace.com/128vlife...rypacks.aspx*I know some
folks using batteries/chargers from these guys are are quite happy
with them... many options at many pricepoints...

-Paul

Paul,
those look really nice.

Brian

Frank, I have a problem with those Peak Batteries, the web site
doesn't give enough information. Size, what kind of charger, etc.
Maybe you or someone could dig into it a little and report back. I did
read the article in Soaring but felt it was thin in places.

Brian



Take a look at Scott Fletcher's article in this month's Soaring
Magazine. *While very expensive (about 5x), the Li-Fe-Po (Lithium-Iron-
Phosphate) battery pack is a lot better suited to soaring use than
either Li-ion or SLA batteries. *The K2 Energy (http://www.peakbattery.com/) 12V 10AH pack is the same size and form factor


Frank (TA)

Brian,

Very interesting post! I've never given a thought to the fact my cell
phone and iPAQ batteries were Li-ion.

You mention that you ignited a Li-ion with a hammer. That's not very
realistic as an in-cockpit trigger, so in your view what might cause a
Li-ion battery in a cell phone or a iPAQ (that had been fully charged
on the ground) to catch fire?

-John

On Nov 12, 2:45 pm, brianDG303 wrote:
When you say that the Peak battery is a lot safer, I'm not all that
convinced, because 1) I was never able to ignite the Li-Ion's other
than with a hammer, and 2) everyone is flying with Li-Ions, in cell
phones, iPaq's, Oudies, Socket Mobile power packs, etc. and I don't
hear of those catching on fire, ever. Not to mention all the Li-Ion's
sitting on job sites everywhere all night on chargers, if one burned
in Seattle I would know about it.
But I think that is something for each person to decide and I won't
attempt to convince anyone Li-Ion's are safe, just to consider how
many they are already flying with. One of the batteries I burned up
was from an Ipaq 3950 and it was clear that you Can Not survive such
an event without losing the canopy at a minimum. The smoke, not only
from the battery but from the plastic case and components goes on for
about 90 seconds, is very acrid, think burning tires. The youtube
videos don't do it justice, I think because they burn the battery only
and not a PDA/PNA at the same time which is where a lot of the smoke
comes from.

On Nov 12, 12:14*am, brianDG303 wrote:
... I was
not able to ignite these by any combination of overload,
short circuit, or charging abnormality.

Clearly an amateur ;-)

... I was
not able to ignite these by any combination of overload,
short circuit, or charging abnormality.

Clearly an amateur ;-)

I think we should pitch in and buy him this shirt:
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-...ed-asphalt.gif

Note- the SunSeeker (http://solar-flight.com/sunseeker/index.html) has
a 'battery ejection' system in case of ignition of it's LIon
batteries. It's a fancy sting and pulley thing if memory serves, but
should release it's incendiary payload in a pinch -hopefully before
the rest of the plastic goes all flaming marshmellow...(look out
below!)

-Paul

ps. did you try the exacto trick? (stab deeply w/#11 blade and quickly
jump out of way of ensuing focused plasma flame

On Nov 12, 2:54*pm, brianDG303 wrote:
Frank, I have a problem with those Peak Batteries, the web site
doesn't give enough information. Size, what kind of charger, etc.
Maybe you or someone could dig into it a little and report back. I did
read the article in Soaring but felt it was thin in places.

Brian









Take a look at Scott Fletcher's article in this month's Soaring
Magazine. *While very expensive (about 5x), the Li-Fe-Po (Lithium-Iron-
Phosphate) battery pack is a lot better suited to soaring use than
either Li-ion or SLA batteries. *The K2 Energy (http://www.peakbattery.com/) 12V 10AH pack is the same size and form factor

Frank (TA)

Brian,

The K2 site sells a compatible charger (which btw is also much smaller/
lighter than my older VDC Electronics Battery Minder Plus), and will
charge two K2 LiFePo batteries in parallel. Cost for one battery, one
charger and shipping to Columbus OH was about $242 US.

The combination is much more expensive than my SLA setup. However,
when I consider the cost of modifying my battery compartments to
accommodate larger batteries, or the potential cost (i.e., my life!)
of not having a transponder/FLARM next year, I'm comfortable with the
tradeoff ;-).

Frank (TA)

I remember fun days working in a lab where colleagues were developing
the "revolutionary" sodium sulfur battery (colloquially referred to as
the "fire and brimstone" battery). The chief skill developers learned
was how to run fast while wearing asbestos suits and full-face
protective helmets. If you've never had to deal with a bucket of
burning molten sodium, you've never lived! (Hint - water isn't
terribly useful!) You probably wouldn't want any quantity of burning
(molten or otherwise) lithium near you or in your glider either.

Lithium is WAY too close to the reactive end of the periodic table
(right up there with sodium, magnesium and potassium).

MIke

Lithium is WAY too close to the reactive end of the periodic table
(right up there with sodium, magnesium and potassium).

MIke

Most smaller Cessnas and the Grob G-103 have magnesium wheels....and I
like bananas for the potassium before I fly.

;-)

aerodyne

On Nov 13, 7:54*am, wrote:
Lithium is WAY too close to the reactive end of the periodic table
(right up there with sodium, magnesium and potassium).

MIke

Most smaller Cessnas and the Grob G-103 have magnesium wheels....and I
like bananas for the potassium before I fly.

;-)

aerodyne

Mmmmm radioactive bananas.

Darryl