GIVEN CURRENT WARS, F-35s ARE BETTER CHOICE THAN MORE F-22As

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article , raymond-
says...

"Typhoon502" wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 6:51 am, "Roger Conroy"
wrote:
"Tiger" wrote in message

...





Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Ian B MacLure" wrote in message
...

"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in
:

we are in two wars now{which we are losing} and you're worried about
an
imaginary war against an imaginary opponent.
russia is not a credible threat. and it is decades away from being
one.

Losing? Lose to whom? Current events don't seem be anywere close. As
for
Russia? They have in the last year expanded their military activity.
They
are flying Bears again, opposed our missile defence plans, and Nato
expansions. Decades may be a bit much.

Russia is not the only possible future technologically advanced enemy -
don't take your eyes of China, or a possible Arab alliance.- Hide
quoted
text -

Not to mention Venezuela...

we don't need F-22s to fight venezuela.

You are one of those who believe in fair fights ?



it still won't be a fair fight.

In article , raymond-
says...

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article , raymond-
says...

"Typhoon502" wrote in message
...
On Jun 11, 6:51 am, "Roger Conroy"
wrote:
"Tiger" wrote in message

...





Raymond O'Hara wrote:
"Ian B MacLure" wrote in message
...

"Raymond O'Hara" wrote in
:

we are in two wars now{which we are losing} and you're worried about
an
imaginary war against an imaginary opponent.
russia is not a credible threat. and it is decades away from being
one.

Losing? Lose to whom? Current events don't seem be anywere close. As
for
Russia? They have in the last year expanded their military activity.
They
are flying Bears again, opposed our missile defence plans, and Nato
expansions. Decades may be a bit much.

Russia is not the only possible future technologically advanced enemy -
don't take your eyes of China, or a possible Arab alliance.- Hide
quoted
text -

Not to mention Venezuela...

we don't need F-22s to fight venezuela.

You are one of those who believe in fair fights ?



it still won't be a fair fight.

So ?

If technical superiority will allow my country to prevail with fewer
casualties then I vote for the fancy tech.


--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article , raymond-
says...

are they just going to magically appear in 10 years, full blown, armed to
the teeth with ultra-fighters?

Yes.

Example: German 1930 to 1940.

--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article , raymond-
says...

as it is, in 30 year manned planes will probably be obsolete.



IIRC that claim was made already.

Around 1960 or ther abouts...

--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article , Zomby-
says...
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:43:48 -0500, Dan wrote:

Raymond O'Hara wrote:
snip
a big main force war isn't going to happen anytime in the next 50 years.

You may be willing to stake your life on that, I'm not. I have
history on my side. Since WW2 there were Korea, Viet Nam and Gulf War
where an air superiority fighter was a requirement. Iraq may not have
had the greatest air force, but they didn't exactly roll over either.

Actually they did, they rolled over & play dead or fled. There were
no attempts at any meaningful maintenance of Iraqi airspace by the
Iraqi's.


Never bet the next opponant will do as the last did.

I know it's never been proven but the Iraqi airfocre may have caught
that flle deises from the Mirage fighters they flew


--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article ,
says...

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:47:17 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
wrote:

On Jun 12, 12:31 pm, Yeff wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 09:15:22 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum wrote:
The USAF hates CAS because it doesn't win
medals and gets them in bar fights.

And you know this how?

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail fm

Watching bar fights and listening to the AFs whine. Actually watched a
"combined" exercise on Hawaii and the subsequent bar fight. Looked
like a regularly scheduled event.

Your mileage may vary, but I've got a couple of gongs for ground
support and none for air/air. CAS is one of the most fun missions you
can do in a tactical aircraft. The only bar fight I ever saw was
between folks fighting to be the first to buy an fighter pilot a beer
for CAS the grunts had appreciated.

The major difference today isn't that CAS is hated by the AF, but
simply that CAS looks a lot different than it did in the past. No more
"gomers in the wire" "danger close" "whites of their eyes" stuff. JDAM
from the menopause brings more precise support without the grunt ever
seeing the airplane. It might just as well be organic artillery fire.
He never knows.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
www.thunderchief.org

No more Sandys dumping napalm on the treeline from knife-fight altitude - a
scene much used by Hollywood.
I wonder how the movies would portray LGBs arriving out of the blue?


Chirping birds...
The leafs in the trees fluttering in the gentle breeze..
In the distance you can hear the rumble of a vehicle column..

The building to your front sits quiet in the morning sun.

BOOM

When the dust clears there is only rubble...




--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

In article z484k.1094$L03.864@edtnps92,
says...
The unit cost for A-10's is quoted at roughly US $10-15
million on the sites I found. All I know is that the F-22 unit cost is
somewhere north of US $100 million (the Air Force says $142 million on their
factsheet but who knows which unit cost that is) and the F-35 unit cost is
also over US $100 million.

That A-10 cost was probably for the lst ones built, way back when ??

I can FEDLOG the M35 2-1/2 ton truck and get a price. Last Time I
checked a M35A2 was $47,000 or so..
But you can't order any new ones because the production line is long
gone.


--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

"tankfixer" wrote in message
...
In article z484k.1094$L03.864@edtnps92,
says...
The unit cost for A-10's is quoted at roughly US $10-15
million on the sites I found. All I know is that the F-22 unit cost is
somewhere north of US $100 million (the Air Force says $142 million on
their
factsheet but who knows which unit cost that is) and the F-35 unit cost
is
also over US $100 million.

That A-10 cost was probably for the lst ones built, way back when ??

I can FEDLOG the M35 2-1/2 ton truck and get a price. Last Time I
checked a M35A2 was $47,000 or so..
But you can't order any new ones because the production line is long
gone.


--

"Oh Norman, listen! The loons are calling!"
- Katherine Hepburn, "On Golden Pond"

Don't worry, according to Mr. O'Hara's logic, as long as you've still got
the original paper napkin sketch, starting up a production line is easy!
What an idjit!

Zombywoof wrote:
On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 04:44:59 -0500, Dan wrote:

Zombywoof wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:43:48 -0500, Dan wrote:

Raymond O'Hara wrote:
snip
a big main force war isn't going to happen anytime in the next 50 years.
You may be willing to stake your life on that, I'm not. I have
history on my side. Since WW2 there were Korea, Viet Nam and Gulf War
where an air superiority fighter was a requirement. Iraq may not have
had the greatest air force, but they didn't exactly roll over either.

Actually they did, they rolled over & play dead or fled. There were
no attempts at any meaningful maintenance of Iraqi airspace by the
Iraqi's.
Well, the 33rd TFW took out 16 Iraqi MiGs that weren't rolling over
or fleeing. They may not have been anywhere near top notch, but those 16
at least did put up a fight.

Yeah I know a little bit about that since I was stationed @ Eglin AFB
during the event at what was then the Tactical Air Warfare Center.

Then you remember the 16 green stars and the signs that read
"Biggest MiG parts distributors in Southwest Asia." I was in main base
with 9 SOS at the time.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

tankfixer wrote:
In article z484k.1094$L03.864@edtnps92,
says...
The unit cost for A-10's is quoted at roughly US $10-15
million on the sites I found. All I know is that the F-22 unit cost is
somewhere north of US $100 million (the Air Force says $142 million on their
factsheet but who knows which unit cost that is) and the F-35 unit cost is
also over US $100 million.

That A-10 cost was probably for the lst ones built, way back when ??

I can FEDLOG the M35 2-1/2 ton truck and get a price. Last Time I
checked a M35A2 was $47,000 or so..
But you can't order any new ones because the production line is long
gone.


My copy of Fed Log is 10 years old. Do they still publish it on
CD-ROM? I'd love to get my hands on a current set.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired