More LED's - Again

Ferric Chloride may be safer than Muratic Acid

Not even close.



http://www.artmondo.net/printworks/articles/ferric.htm
Spent ferric chloride can be neutralized with soda as well.

Yes, and you wind up with several gallons of the most wonderful brown
permanent dye you can imagine.




Plus, I THIINK Ferric Chloride is the commonly available de-smuting
solution you need to anodize 2000 series aluminum.

I'm only going to worry about anodizing 5052, which has very little copper
or zinc, so desmutting shouldn't be a problem.



For dyeing anodized aluminum, try RIT, or page through this catalog:
http://dharmatrading.com/html/eng/2934904-AA.shtml Sealing, I guess
you'll have to use clear lacquer.

I had thought about RIT, and I've been told that food dye will also do the
job. I'll just have to experiment.

Jim

FWIW, I do have this guys instruction manual-if its the same guy
(adonizing aluminium). I can find the manual and look stuff up if you want.

That would be great, if you would. However, he does seem to be quite
interested in selling his proprietary dye, desmutter, and sealant.

Jim



"John T" wrote in message
...
FWIW, I do have this guys instruction manual-if its the same guy
(adonizing aluminium). I can find the manual and look stuff up if you
want.

"RST Engineering" wrote in news:3bb78$44185ad4
:

That would be great, if you would. However, he does seem to be quite
interested in selling his proprietary dye, desmutter, and sealant.

Jim



"John T" wrote in message
...
FWIW, I do have this guys instruction manual-if its the same guy
(adonizing aluminium). I can find the manual and look stuff up if you
want.




I came across this site a couple of years ago, when I thought I had time
to play It also tries to sell kits, but there are some manuals and
videos that made for some interesting reading. A lot of technical details
that convinced me that for the one or two pieces I wanted to do, I should
just have them done

http://support.caswellplating.com/

Jeff

Jim said:

Ferric Chloride may be safer than Muratic Acid

Not even close

Can you say more?

Let me first say I don't work with either on a regular basis - I'm sure
you have LOTS of experience with Ferric Chloride.

But if you've etched copper with the Muratic Acid/Hydrogen Peroxide
solution you're advocating, it will have lots of copper ions in it, and
it's the copper that makes spent Ferric Chloride a Hazardous Waste.
http://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/ferric_faq.html

Make no mistake, I'm not presenting Ferric Chloride as benign - it's
clearly not:
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/f1080.htm

Neither is Muriatic Acid:
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov...ds&id=16009010

Why do you see Muriatic Acid as less trouble? I'm genuinely curious...

Highest Regards,

Let me first say I don't work with either on a regular basis - I'm sure
you have LOTS of experience with Ferric Chloride.

Only on a rather steady basis since 1963 or so.



But if you've etched copper with the Muratic Acid/Hydrogen Peroxide
solution you're advocating, it will have lots of copper ions in it, and
it's the copper that makes spent Ferric Chloride a Hazardous Waste.
http://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/ferric_faq.html

That is correct. However, you can toss a pad of steel wool into the
muriatic acid when you are done and the copper will plate out onto the wool.
Metallic copper is not a hazmat. Steel wool is not a hazmat. Neutralized
muriatic acid is not a hazmat. Ferric chloride loaded with copper is and it
is NOT easy to precipitate out the copper from a ferric chloride solution.
That's why one accepted method of disposal is inside a concrete "septic
tank" that is then sealed.


Make no mistake, I'm not presenting Ferric Chloride as benign - it's
clearly not:
http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/f1080.htm

Neither is Muriatic Acid:
http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov...ds&id=16009010

Why do you see Muriatic Acid as less trouble? I'm genuinely curious...

Because I have to have a hazmat license to use ferric chloride in the
classroom laboratory and I can buy muriatic acid and hydrogen peroxide from
the home depot without any permits at all.

Jim

Andrew,

Small nit pick: laser printers don't lay down ink, they lay down
"toner" which is in fact a type of thermoplastic. When you say that
you are transferring the ink from the paper, that is a bit of a
misnomer...

Dean

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
I also used the laser printer toner transfer method for my LED design
which I posted a couple of weeks ago. I originally discovered the
technique from http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
The paper came off easily in water and a gentle scrub. One problem I
noticed is that the gloss sticks to the ink more than the paper. So
when the paper peels off, the gloss stays on the ink. This may not be a
problem where the ink is supposed to be, but the gloss also bridges
across small openings like drill hole location markers. I tried
scratching these areas with a needle to remove the gloss, but it did
not come off easily. Also, this is very hard to see because the gloss
is transparent. Only after the etch you realize that the location
markers are missing. But this was not a big problem for me because the
location markers were simply an aid for centering the drill bit.But it
could be a problem if the bridging is between closely spaced tracks.

Also, regarding the #70 drill bits, are you sure you got them at Harbor
Freight? They did not have anything smaller than 1/16". If you have a
product number or a URL that would be helpful.




wrote:
To All:

The steady decline in the cost of ultra-bright green LED's (now about
two-bits each for a 100-piece baggie) has generated renewed interest in
the bug-eyed LED nav lights I described on this Newsgroup a couple of
years ago.

Unfortunately, that renewed interest has lead to some renewed problems,
one having to do with the lay-out of the circuit board, the other with
its fabrication. But the most serious problem has to do with the fact
that ham radio operators learn to solder shortly after birth, or even
before... according to some. Along with the ability to solder is the
companion knowledge of how to make a circuit board out of a bit of
substrate and a piece of string about... that long. But the main
stumbling block for non-hams appears to be how to make all those
teenie-tiny holes in the circuit board.

MAKING HOLES

It's pretty easy. You need a tiny drill -- somewhere between #70 and
#75. Then you need to spin it about 12,000 rpm. And you need to keep
it perfectly vertical as you make the hole.

The drill bits are no problem. Harbor Freight will sell you a
selection of solid carbide bits suitable for the task; simply pick a
size to suit the components you're using, such as the wire legs of an
LED or quarter-watt resister.

A Dremel tool (or similar) is the handiest means of chucking the tiny
drill, most of which have a shank diameter of 1/8".

To hold it perfectly vertical you don't 'hold' it at all -- you make up
a 90 degree bracket and clamp, wire or glue the tool to the vertical
leg. On the horizontal leg you drill a 1/4" hole to accept a bolt
which you then chuck into your DRILL PRESS. There's a few picky-bits
to this method, such as using a bracket that is a true 90, and thick
enough so as not to deflect as you run the quill of your drill press up
& down. You need some method of preventing the quill from rotating of
course -- I use a simple wedge between the quill pulley and the frame
of the drill press head (big, old Craftsman floor model. Your mileage
may vary...) To keep from ruining the chuck in your drill press (which
was not designed to grab hold of threaded bolts) you put a barrel-nut
on the bolt.

Deal with all the tricky bits and the result is a shake-free,
carbide-tipped hole-maker that will give you a life-time of accurate
service (and already has, in my case... I used it to make the boards
for my first computer back in the mid-70's).

ELEVATION vs AZIMUTH

Azimuth is relative to the horizontal. Elevation means over-head. In
laying out the circuit board, asimuth is taken care of by orienting the
legs of the LED's. Since the LED's have an average viewing angle of 25
degrees, to provide adequate coverage the azimuth angle starts at 10
degrees and progresses in 20 degree increments. Of course, when you're
trying to provide full coverage across a segment of a sphere, your
LED's must be accurately oriented in TWO dimensions.

The key point here is that I chose to build the aximuth angle into the
circuit board.

The elevation angle is bent into the legs of the LED's using a simple
form-block, accurately printed via DeltaCAD, glued to a bit of plywood
and sanded to the line. To keep things simple, I abandoned the
variable height arrangement as described in my original post, other
than allowing a bit of overlap between one row of LED's to the next so
as to keep down the circuit board, which comes out about two by two
inches.

As a further simplification, I eliminated the left vs right bending
angles used in my original (2002) lights. Now all of the LED's get the
same set of bends relative to their positive lead. To accommodate the
change from left- to right-facing, I re-drew the circuit board.

MAKING THE CIRCUIT BOARD

The Old Fashioned Way was to start with a drawing then go to litho
film, then to a fine-meshed silk screen. Once you had the silk screen
you could whip out a hundred circuit boards in an afternoon... after
spending a month to arrive at that point.

Nowadays I simply print the circuit board mask onto cheap
glossy-finished color photo paper using a monochrome laser printer.
Here's why it works:

Laser printer media is a finely divided thermo-plastic -- a powder so
fine it is attracted to the electrostatic charge created by the laser.
The thermo-plastic material is transferred to the paper by heat.

This lends itself to making circuit boards because once the
thermo-plastic material has been transferred to the paper, it may be
RE-TRANSFERRED to the clean copper surface of a blank circuit board by
the application of ADDITIIONAL heat. In effect, you literally iron-on
the mask, solidly gluing the paper to the circuit board.

Now the trick is to get rid of the paper, which I'll get to in a
minute. But before I do, you should know that while using plain paper
is possible, the resulting transfer will show a lot of voids; plain
paper simply isn't a very good substrait for the thermo-plastic
material. But cheap color copier paper is. Color copier paper is
typically coated, giving it a denser, more uniform surface than regular
#20 bond. That slicker surface attracts a more uniform layer of the
thermo-plastic material; you end up with a dense, dark, void-free
pattern.

But it's gotta be CHEAP color copier paper because you want the stuff
to dissolve in warm, soapy water. High quality color copier paper is
some very tough stuff; it doesn't like to come apart. But the paper
HAS to come apart if we want to leave ONLY the thermo-plastic material
bonded to our circuit board. So use the cheap stuff. And soak it in
warm soapy water. Then scrub it with a tooth brush or whatever -- get
ALL of the paper off of the thermo-plastic.

Now you can etch the board in the usual way. And having etched it, you
gotta drill those zillion holes. Once etched & drilled, remove the
thermo-plastic, which you can do with MEK or other kidney-killer
solvent and a bit of steel wool.

The result is a bright copper circuit board, ready to accept components
and easy to solder. Once things are soldered and checked and and all
the errors corrected, give the thing a coating of clear finger-nail
polish (!) and you're all done -- a super bright nav light that will
never burn out (at least, not in your life time) that draws about a
quarter of an amp, meaning the wiring can be slightly smaller than a
starter cable.

-R.S.Hoover
-(KA6HZF)

PS -- Yes, you may have a copy of the circuit boards, if you wish. But
you could probably do better yourself -- except for the stern-light,
they're just rectangular 5x9 arrays. I don't have a web site and I
already get more email than I want so I'll try to find somewhere to
hang them. When I do, I post the information here... for all 385
subscribers of r.a.h. to read :-)

wrote:
Andrew,

Small nit pick: laser printers don't lay down ink, they lay down
"toner" which is in fact a type of thermoplastic. When you say that
you are transferring the ink from the paper, that is a bit of a
misnomer...

Dean


Very true. I have used the terms toner and ink interchangeably, which
is not correct.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
wrote:

Andrew,

Small nit pick: laser printers don't lay down ink, they lay down
"toner" which is in fact a type of thermoplastic. When you say that
you are transferring the ink from the paper, that is a bit of a
misnomer...

De

Very true. I have used the terms toner and ink interchangeably, which
is not correct.

Jut a small nit from one who has used (or attempted to) a laser printer
to get good PC board results. Its often hard to get decent thickness of
the toner on the paper so the remelt with the iron works properly,
therefore, I have have started to use press-n-peel with greater success.
You print on this special paper, press onto the copper s normal, then
soak in water. Much better results with finer lines.

Evan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFEHHxhpxCQXwV2bJARAqWfAKCFUfX9hFilGUjsflYfX4 V7QyGOfACdFQfq
lLcs2QOQ0p/H5A2F8z0CYzA=
=Kwvv
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Evan Carew wrote:

Andrew,

Small nit pick: laser printers don't lay down ink, they lay down
"toner" which is in fact a type of thermoplastic. When you say that
you are transferring the ink from the paper, that is a bit of a
misnomer...

De

Very true. I have used the terms toner and ink interchangeably, which
is not correct.


Jut a small nit from one who has used (or attempted to) a laser printer
to get good PC board results. Its often hard to get decent thickness of
the toner on the paper so the remelt with the iron works properly,
therefore, I have have started to use press-n-peel with greater success.
You print on this special paper, press onto the copper s normal, then
soak in water. Much better results with finer lines.

Evan

Thanks for the lead,
Got a link to go with it?

Richard