midair in Bay Area Nov 7

And my guess (would love to hear from those who really know) is that the
data packets themselves have not changed in some years, even as the
algorithms the unit uses to predict which ones represent a collision
hazard have improved. Yet another reason why a unit with older firmware
should keep on operating.

Of course one should do the firmware updates, but what upsets me is the
unit refusing to operate at all if you don't. Like I said, it should
instead give some sort of semi-annoying reminder, like an occasional sound.

Does anyone know for sure what happens between a recently updated Flarm and one which has not been updated? It is quite possible that the newer firmware unit does deal with info from the older firmware unit. What Flarm have guaranteed is that firmware will be compatible forwards and backwards at least 12 months - I think that is different from saying that you will definitely not benefit from a warning if there is a longer firmware age difference. They introduced this system to replace a far worse system where there was no forwards and backwards capability, and they asked everyone to upgrade within a one month period.

On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:17:51 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:47:43 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 12:37:32 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
My biggest complaint with Flarm is that ,when flying along with a friend
a hundred or so yards apart, co-altitude and not in any danger of a
collision, the thing screams continuously about an imminent threat.
Add to your configuration file:

# set competition mode (ON = 2, OFF = 0)
$PFLAC,S,CFLAGS,2

Enjoy. You're welcome. Read flarm docs for details.

T8
Many flarm displays allows you to configure low, medium, high for collision. I never have false alarms as mine is configured to high. I only get alarm when I should. I do not recommend competition mode unless you fly comp..

Ramy
I have no idea what you mean when you say "mine is configured to high". In my experience, all one can do at the display is suppress one or two of the three alarm states. Competition mode preserves all three alarm states, but eliminates nuisance alarms of the type that Dan describes, which is why I made the recommendation. It's my standard mode of operation.

I don't think suppressing alarms in 'normal mode' is a good solution to this problem because it reduces warning time for all encounters, including the head on scenario under discussion. Competition mode doesn't appear to have any adverse effect on how flarm works during a head on encounter. (It would be great if a knowledgeable Flarm insider could comment on this).

best,
T8
I was referring to a setting in the flarm display. LXNAV has low/mid/high warning level.
Dan was describing continuous alarms, so I don’t believe competition mode will change that. I believe competition mode only reduces flarm data on the screen and has no impact on alarms.
From my experience when people complain of too many alarms, it is from one of these reasons:
1- The warning level is set to Low which gives loud alarm for distance targets. Changing it to mid or high will reduce those alarms.
2- mode C alarm is on, resulting in continues alarm when you fly near or thermaling with someone
You should disable mode C and select traffic alert only so you will get notification but not alarm.

Ramy

Martin Gregorie wrote on 11/18/2020 6:27 AM:
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 05:24:27 -0800, Me wrote:

On Monday, November 16, 2020 at 10:03:10 PM UTC-6, Gregg Ballou wrote:
Have there been any glider mid airs in the last few years where the
gliders didn't have Flarm?

There's also a lot more car crashes with seat belts these days.

Seat belts don't warn the driver of possible car crashes - they only make
them more survivable.

FLARM is not remotely equivalent to a seat-belt.

Seat belts - and Flarm - make their respective activities (driving and flying) more survivable,
though by different means. In aircraft, seat belts often have expiry dates, and need "firmware"
updates. So, I think they are equivalent in the sense they are both safety devices.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:51:35 AM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:17:51 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:47:43 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 12:37:32 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
My biggest complaint with Flarm is that ,when flying along with a friend
a hundred or so yards apart, co-altitude and not in any danger of a
collision, the thing screams continuously about an imminent threat.
Add to your configuration file:

# set competition mode (ON = 2, OFF = 0)
$PFLAC,S,CFLAGS,2

Enjoy. You're welcome. Read flarm docs for details.

T8
Many flarm displays allows you to configure low, medium, high for collision. I never have false alarms as mine is configured to high. I only get alarm when I should. I do not recommend competition mode unless you fly comp.

Ramy
I have no idea what you mean when you say "mine is configured to high". In my experience, all one can do at the display is suppress one or two of the three alarm states. Competition mode preserves all three alarm states, but eliminates nuisance alarms of the type that Dan describes, which is why I made the recommendation. It's my standard mode of operation.

I don't think suppressing alarms in 'normal mode' is a good solution to this problem because it reduces warning time for all encounters, including the head on scenario under discussion. Competition mode doesn't appear to have any adverse effect on how flarm works during a head on encounter. (It would be great if a knowledgeable Flarm insider could comment on this).

best,
T8
I was referring to a setting in the flarm display. LXNAV has low/mid/high warning level.
Dan was describing continuous alarms, so I don’t believe competition mode will change that. I believe competition mode only reduces flarm data on the screen and has no impact on alarms.
From my experience when people complain of too many alarms, it is from one of these reasons:
1- The warning level is set to Low which gives loud alarm for distance targets. Changing it to mid or high will reduce those alarms.
2- mode C alarm is on, resulting in continues alarm when you fly near or thermaling with someone
You should disable mode C and select traffic alert only so you will get notification but not alarm.

Ramy

Hi Ramy,

I think you are confusing competition mode with stealth mode, at least in part. They are completely different. The only purpose of competition mode is to suppress nuisance alarms when flying in formation (smooth gaggle flying is formation flying).

Suppressing some of the alerts at the display level has inherent disadvantages (already covered), so I recommend not doing this.

best,
T8

Moshe Braner wrote on 11/18/2020 6:52 AM:
On 11/18/2020 9:18 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Moshe Braner wrote on 11/17/2020 8:12 PM:
...

How long should a unit be allowed to go beyond a year without updating? one month? One year?
10 years? You are suggesting that units with newer versions must recognize the version of
other Flarms and compensate for their reduced functionality, giving us a system that is not
operating as well as it could - which reduces our safety.

Eventually, older versions must be updated. You accept this when you install it, and it can
easily be part of your annual inspection. If you have a Flarm compatible display, it will
announce the need for the update; if you choose a non-compatible display, it is your
responsibility to remember when to update. This is no different than expecting pilots to
update their charts and check for NOTAMS.

Perhaps every Flarm unit should have a loud, annoying buzzer that activates at the end of the
first flight with outdated firmware :^)* In the meantime, Ramy's "Johnny Appleseed" approach
and reminders at contests and camps are worthwhile efforts.

AFAIK, the FLARM units transmit position reports in the blind, and there is no reason they
should stop doing that if the firmware is old.* On the receiving side, they need to interpret
the data packets that come in. As long as they can understand those packets, they should use them.

As I mentioned in my other posting, at any given moment some properly-updated FLARM units have
firmware that is up to a year older than others.* Perhaps even a larger gap, since when you
"update" it you get some version of the firmware from the FLARM web site, that is already some
months old.* Last spring we were told to use an older version 6.8.x for PowerFLARM since the
latest version 7.x had some bug.

And my guess (would love to hear from those who really know) is that the data packets
themselves have not changed in some years, even as the algorithms the unit uses to predict
which ones represent a collision hazard have improved.* Yet another reason why a unit with
older firmware should keep on operating.

Of course one should do the firmware updates, but what upsets me is the unit refusing to
operate at all if you don't.* Like I said, it should instead give some sort of semi-annoying
reminder, like an occasional sound.

My understanding is they broadcast a projected flight path for the glider in which they are
installed. The receiving Flarm calculates the collision potential based on that projected
flight path, and the one it projects for it's own glider. Flarm is not just a simple position
reporter, and it depends on both units using the same GPS data in the same way, and making
calculations the same way.

Would you excuse a pilot that does not update his database, then uses the wrong CTAF when
landing at an airport? I think the requirement for a yearly update is reasonable, the manual
states that requirement, and the unit will announce the problem on a compatible display.

A buzzer to warn the pilot might help; possibly, the Flarm could continue to broadcast it's
position and expired status, then receiving Flarms could show a big red "X" so other pilots
know they are flying near an expired Flarm. Later, they can bring their USB drives to the pilot
and encourage him to update.

I still wonder how long you think a unit should operate without updates.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On 11/17/20 9:04 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
When the battery in my smoke alarm gets weak, it emits an occasional
short beep to remind me.

....And why, pray tell, does that always occur at 0230?

Sorry... Off topic.

--
Dan
5J

I think the pflarm guys/gals had a good reason for setting a policy for updates. They probably thought of the case where the thing continues to work "barely good enough" and knew some lazy pilots would just leave it that way forever. That's no good either.
As we are starting to see with other devices the best solution would have been to have builit-in wifi and auto updates. Much like your computer... but then that adds cost and a whole other set of complaints.
Darren

On 11/18/20 7:18 AM, Eric Greenwell wrote:
If you have a Flarm compatible display, it will announce the need for
the update;

Well... I've never seen this. Does that mean that I've been good at
keeping my Flarm up to date?

BTW, last night I emailed the latest firmware and my config file with
T8's suggestion to the hangar. I'll make the updates before my next flight.

--
Dan
5J

On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 8:05:23 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 10:51:35 AM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Wednesday, November 18, 2020 at 4:35:39 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:17:51 PM UTC-5, Ramy wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 9:47:43 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 12:37:32 PM UTC-5, Dan Marotta wrote:
My biggest complaint with Flarm is that ,when flying along with a friend
a hundred or so yards apart, co-altitude and not in any danger of a
collision, the thing screams continuously about an imminent threat.
Add to your configuration file:

# set competition mode (ON = 2, OFF = 0)
$PFLAC,S,CFLAGS,2

Enjoy. You're welcome. Read flarm docs for details.

T8
Many flarm displays allows you to configure low, medium, high for collision. I never have false alarms as mine is configured to high. I only get alarm when I should. I do not recommend competition mode unless you fly comp.

Ramy
I have no idea what you mean when you say "mine is configured to high". In my experience, all one can do at the display is suppress one or two of the three alarm states. Competition mode preserves all three alarm states, but eliminates nuisance alarms of the type that Dan describes, which is why I made the recommendation. It's my standard mode of operation.

I don't think suppressing alarms in 'normal mode' is a good solution to this problem because it reduces warning time for all encounters, including the head on scenario under discussion. Competition mode doesn't appear to have any adverse effect on how flarm works during a head on encounter. (It would be great if a knowledgeable Flarm insider could comment on this).

best,
T8
I was referring to a setting in the flarm display. LXNAV has low/mid/high warning level.
Dan was describing continuous alarms, so I don’t believe competition mode will change that. I believe competition mode only reduces flarm data on the screen and has no impact on alarms.
From my experience when people complain of too many alarms, it is from one of these reasons:
1- The warning level is set to Low which gives loud alarm for distance targets. Changing it to mid or high will reduce those alarms.
2- mode C alarm is on, resulting in continues alarm when you fly near or thermaling with someone
You should disable mode C and select traffic alert only so you will get notification but not alarm.

Ramy
Hi Ramy,

I think you are confusing competition mode with stealth mode, at least in part. They are completely different. The only purpose of competition mode is to suppress nuisance alarms when flying in formation (smooth gaggle flying is formation flying).

Suppressing some of the alerts at the display level has inherent disadvantages (already covered), so I recommend not doing this.

best,
T8

I didn’t try competition mode but this is what the LX9000 says about competition mode:
“ Competition mode is intended only for competitions. If this mode is enabled the pilot will not be able to see any FLARM data on the navigational screens. The competition mode status is recorded in the IGC file and can be checked during scoring. Range of view is also limited.�
It doesn’t mention anything about reducing alarms.
Perhaps it is implemented differently in different displays, which will be bad.
I did however tried the low alarm setting , and it was giving me alarms for gliders which were hundreds of feet below, so reduced it to mid or high (can’t recall which).

Ramy

On 11/18/20 8:51 AM, Ramy wrote:
2- mode C alarm is on, resulting in continues alarm when you fly near or thermaling with someone

That's it!

My friend had only a Mode 3/A transponder with Mode C. He now has a
Flarm so the problem should have been overtaken by events. We'll see
next season.

--
Dan
5J