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Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 16th 18, 03:20 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 123
Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

On 08/15/2018 07:32 PM, AS wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 11:18:01 PM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.reporterherald.com/lifest...s-stratosphere Arne is an SSA member and member of Colorado Soaring Association.


Here is a video of the first tow by the Grob G520 towing a G103.
https://youtu.be/q-1qBOUMfwo
There is no N-# visible on the Egrett in the video. Does anyone know what category it is registered?

Uli
'AS'

It would be the one registered in Delaware in this list:

https://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinq...ETT&PageN o=1
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  #12  
Old August 16th 18, 04:13 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ramy[_2_]
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Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

Typo aside, am I the only one somewhat disappointed to learn that the plan is to tow the Perlan to 50,000 feet, or I missread the article? I was kind of hoping the Perlan is capable of climbing to 90K from a reasonable tow altitude.

Ramy
  #13  
Old August 16th 18, 04:53 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Eric Greenwell[_4_]
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Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

Ramy wrote on 8/15/2018 8:13 PM:
Typo aside, am I the only one somewhat disappointed to learn that the plan is to tow the Perlan to 50,000 feet, or I missread the article? I was kind of hoping the Perlan is capable of climbing to 90K from a reasonable tow altitude.

Ramy


My understanding is the Egret has that capability, but they don't plan to use it
routinely.


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Dec 2014a" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://soaringsafety.org/prevention/...anes-2014A.pdf
  #14  
Old August 16th 18, 05:21 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 123
Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

On 08/15/2018 09:13 PM, Ramy wrote:
Typo aside, am I the only one somewhat disappointed to learn that the plan is to tow the Perlan to 50,000 feet, or I missread the article? I was kind of hoping the Perlan is capable of climbing to 90K from a reasonable tow altitude.

Ramy


Arnie told me that Perlan was having a lot of trouble climbing through a
certain altitude band (30K?). With an unheated cabin and limited
electrical power, that made if difficult to have successful missions.

I don't think they're planning on going to 50K, but yes, high fast tows
is why the Egrett was brought in. First high tow went to 40K.

-Dave
  #15  
Old August 16th 18, 05:43 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Bob Gibbons[_2_]
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Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:17:58 -0700 (PDT), Frank Whiteley
wrote:

http://www.reporterherald.com/lifest...s-stratosphere Arne is an SSA member and member of Colorado Soaring Association.


Perhaps an interesting side note. The late A.C. Williams was heavily
involved as a key consultant to Grob during the development of the
Egrett.

At one point the aircraft was housed in one half of Southwest
Soaring's hangar, with a large hanging curtain cutting off view from
the other half of the hangar.

  #16  
Old August 16th 18, 06:35 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
kinsell
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Posts: 123
Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

On 08/15/2018 10:43 PM, Bob Gibbons wrote:
On Mon, 13 Aug 2018 20:17:58 -0700 (PDT), Frank Whiteley
wrote:

http://www.reporterherald.com/lifest...s-stratosphere Arne is an SSA member and member of Colorado Soaring Association.


Perhaps an interesting side note. The late A.C. Williams was heavily
involved as a key consultant to Grob during the development of the
Egrett.

At one point the aircraft was housed in one half of Southwest
Soaring's hangar, with a large hanging curtain cutting off view from
the other half of the hangar.


It was to be Germany's answer to the U-2, if Wikipedia is to be believed.
  #17  
Old August 16th 18, 03:06 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Marotta
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Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

Was that Gary Powers climbing into the Egrett?* Nah...* Couldn't have been.

On 8/15/2018 7:32 PM, AS wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 11:18:01 PM UTC-4, Frank Whiteley wrote:
http://www.reporterherald.com/lifest...s-stratosphere Arne is an SSA member and member of Colorado Soaring Association.

Here is a video of the first tow by the Grob G520 towing a G103.
https://youtu.be/q-1qBOUMfwo
There is no N-# visible on the Egrett in the video. Does anyone know what category it is registered?

Uli
'AS'


--
Dan, 5J
  #18  
Old August 16th 18, 06:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Ernst
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Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane



It was to be Germany's answer to the U-2, if Wikipedia is to be believed.


Yes, that's why they are registered as gliders.

Ernst
  #19  
Old August 17th 18, 02:08 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Posts: 60
Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

Maybe it was something I ate, but I had a strange thought last night on towing really high.

What if you put a cg tow position on the tow plane and payed out cable from the tow plane winch launch style?

3/16 spectra is 100feet per pound, or 500 pounds for 50k feet. This weight would sometimes be carried by the tow plane's wings and sometimes by the glider's. The line on the tow reel would never be under tension, so you would not need an impossibly strong reel.

Logistics would be interesting to say the least, perhaps:

Launch like a normal aerotow with a tail connection point on the tow and a cg hook on the glider. Use 200 feet of tow rope.

Climb normally to something safer like at least 10kfeet. Perhaps to the tow plane's limit.

Transition the front end of the rope from tow plane tail to tow plane upper CG. Certainly use windows in the bottom of the glider and some computer help. Fouling the tail on the tow is a concern. Perhaps position the glider high and to the side or use a vtail. Definitely a trickey maneuver.

Pay out the other 49,800 feet of tow rope as the glider climbs.

Release both ends and pick up the rope in the ocean.


Definitely something I ate, but fun to think about.




  #20  
Old August 17th 18, 02:55 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
AS
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Posts: 321
Default Perlan High Altitude Tow Plane

On Friday, August 17, 2018 at 9:08:11 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Maybe it was something I ate, but I had a strange thought last night on towing really high.

What if you put a cg tow position on the tow plane and payed out cable from the tow plane winch launch style?

3/16 spectra is 100feet per pound, or 500 pounds for 50k feet. This weight would sometimes be carried by the tow plane's wings and sometimes by the glider's. The line on the tow reel would never be under tension, so you would not need an impossibly strong reel.

Logistics would be interesting to say the least, perhaps:

Launch like a normal aerotow with a tail connection point on the tow and a cg hook on the glider. Use 200 feet of tow rope.

Climb normally to something safer like at least 10kfeet. Perhaps to the tow plane's limit.

Transition the front end of the rope from tow plane tail to tow plane upper CG. Certainly use windows in the bottom of the glider and some computer help. Fouling the tail on the tow is a concern. Perhaps position the glider high and to the side or use a vtail. Definitely a trickey maneuver.

Pay out the other 49,800 feet of tow rope as the glider climbs.

Release both ends and pick up the rope in the ocean.


Definitely something I ate, but fun to think about.


Stu,
I think that has actually been done already in Russia a while back. I put a reference to an article describing that process in our 'winchdesign' forum but since Yahoo got hacked, most of the links to those references are lost..
The glider was towed up like a normal aero-tow. Then, the line was paid out and the tow plane started a descent which allowed the glider to climb like it would in a winch launch.

Uli
'AS'
 




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