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#21
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic wrote:
Thomas Borchert writes: No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming. The whole idea of simulation is to approach real life, whence the name. For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often). Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps. Do aircraft commonly have mechanisms to prevent gear retraction when the wheels are touching ground, or is it usually up to the pilot not to do anything unwise? Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't fly. I was under the impression that full flaps is a normal configuration for landing; is this not true? My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes". If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway (like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used. If the wind is really squirrly you might want partial flaps. Now, what flap setting is "normal" full flaps. I flew a 172 with 40 degrees of flaps, so is 30 degrees "full flaps"? What if that's all your 172 has? The Navion has more than 40 degrees, do I need all of that flap? It depends! (BTW with the old engine take-off in the Navion was 0 flaps, with the new engine it's half-flaps). Margy I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane. |
#22
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Stubby wrote
The instructor calmly demonstrated how to use flaps just to get a few more feet and complete the landing. It was a good lesson but I think he owes me some new underwear. Best glide distance with flaps is always less that best glide distance flaps up. Bad demonstration...bad lesson learned. The reason that most GA airplanes use flaps is to increase drag and steepen the glide angle without increasing the speed. Bob Moore |
#23
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Roy Smith writes:
Do you guys do simulated ramp checks? All sim users are not identical, but it certainly would not surprise me if some of them are simulating ramp checks, as well as many other aspects of real-world bureaucracy. Different people are interested in different aspects of real-world aviation, and simulation generally allows them to concentrate on the aspects that interest them most, while letting the rest slide. In theory just about anything can be simulated. I personally avoid the paperwork. Sim software itself often makes no significant provision for paperwork, beyond things like checklists and the like, so anyone wanting the paperwork side has to pretend on his own. MSFS allows you to file a "flight plan" for IFR flights and simulates ATC interaction based on the flight plan, but it doesn't go much beyond that. Fortunately for me, that's about as far as I'm interested in going myself. The simulated ATC is limited in what it can handle and varies from reality in a number of ways, and it sometimes makes stupid mistakes, but it still enhances realism a great deal. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#24
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Margy Natalie writes:
My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes". If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway (like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used. Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps? I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane. Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#25
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Flaps on take-off and landing
"Stubby" wrote in message . .. Does your POH describe how to use the flaps for short takeoffs, soft field takeoffs, etc? Yes it does. Why do you ask? |
#26
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Flaps on take-off and landing
In article ,
Roy Smith wrote: Think it can't happen? It does. I once had a student who owned a C-206 for umpty years and was learning the Bonanza. Flap and gear levers in opposite positions on the two models. Damn, am I glad the squat switches worked. Interesting 206 that had a "gear lever". G |
#27
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic,
Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment. You have already been told numerous times here that you are wrong and it is not really expensive compared to what you spend on your hobby. Your allusions to risk, which you have made several times but never substantiated are quite overblown. As clueless as you are about real flying, you'd learn a ton in just one hour - if you wanted too. But I guess you're simply not serious about your simming approaching anything like reality. Your problem (one of the many) seems to be that you think only flying big jets is flying worth to be considered. You're wrong. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#28
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic wrote:
Margy Natalie writes: My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes". If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway (like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used. Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps? Fast approach speed. At Dulles I would take the plane over the numbers at cruise speed. You have lots of room to slow down as it's 4000' to the first taxiway. If you learn to do it it's not that hard. If it's REALLY windy you might want to opt for a no flap landing. I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane. Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment. Take at least an intro flight in a real airplane. I think the enjoyment will really beat any sim. Margy |
#29
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Mxsmanic wrote:
Peter Duniho writes: I lower the flaps for the preflight inspection so that I can properly inspect the flap mechanisms, but then retract them after engine start and before taxiing. Doesn't flap movement require engine power? Depends on the aircraft. Some planes they are purely mechanical from the flap handle in the cockpit. In others they are electric. On my plane they are hydraulic, which is run from the engine if it is running but has a backup "wobble pump" which I can use to retract them on the ground if I forget to do so before shutdown. My plane specs flaps up or 1/2 for takeoff (short field takeoff done with 1/2). Landing can be done with any setting of flaps. |
#30
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Flaps on take-off and landing
Thomas Borchert wrote:
, knot winds prevail from evening till morning while morning will have around 10 knot winds at 040, while the afternoon will have 15-ish gusting to 30-ish at 030 to 050, so having flaps down on the ground is a negative because I've seen airplanes start flying halfway through their roll-out after landing. The Cardinal will not fly at gusts of 30 knots - no matter whether the flaps are down or not. BULL****. 20G33 was good student solo weather in Colorado where I learned. We regularly took the Cardinal RG's out in these conditions. |
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